Extended Tartini Notation

Dear George,

Although this is a late reply, let me tell you that I find this news is very exciting. I would like to benefit from such a notation for my doctorate thesis should you find my desire to employ it appropriate.

As for my suggestions:

1. I like the first version as it is now, save for the 7th and 8th degrees. Degree +7 is best with the old symbol, and double sharp +8 is best with the newest X. For number seven, you may like to consider an asterisk.

2. Do please consider moving the sloping slash of -3 flat up a little so that the b of the flat is distinct as in Maqam Notation. That would be much more distinguishable in comparison. The same goes for -7. The musicians here (particularly the Arabs) are very much accustomed to interpret a note flatted this way as a sesquitone for maqams such as hicaz, huzzam and saba, although in Arel-Ezgi theory, it is certainly a limma. That way, it resembles +3 more than +2. If it is too distasteful, then consider using the old version with the slash going through the ring of b.

3. I retract my criticism of -1. Upon closer observation, it looks very good as it is.

Cordially,
Ozan

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Ozan Yarman" <ozanyarman@s...> wrote:
> Dear George,
>
> Although this is a late reply, let me tell you that I find this
news is very exciting. I would like to benefit from such a notation
for my doctorate thesis should you find my desire to employ it
appropriate.

Yes, of course!

> As for my suggestions:
>
> 1. I like the first version as it is now, save for the 7th and 8th
degrees. Degree +7 is best with the old symbol, and double sharp +8
is best with the newest X.

For +8 you are referring to the double-sharp labeled "new2" (the "2"
indicating that it appears in Tartini-plus set #2), right? If so, I
will then incorporate that into Tartini-plus set #1. (I expect that
Dave will also be putting it in the Sagittal font.)

> For number seven, you may like to consider an asterisk.

We spent a lot of time on this one trying to make it look more like
an "X" (double-sharp) with a backslash (5-comma-down) through it
rather than an asterisk, so I would ask you to reconsider this.

As long as we're talking about the double-sharp, did you notice the
difference between the double-flat (-8) in symbol sets #1 and #2?

> 2. Do please consider moving the sloping slash of -3 flat up a
little so that the b of the flat is distinct as in Maqam Notation.
That would be much more distinguishable in comparison. The same goes
for -7. The musicians here (particularly the Arabs) are very much
accustomed to interpret a note flatted this way as a sesquitone for
maqams such as hicaz, huzzam and saba, although in Arel-Ezgi theory,
it is certainly a limma. That way, it resembles +3 more than +2. If
it is too distasteful, then consider using the old version with the
slash going through the ring of b.

A concern that Dave and I had with the old version of the -3 symbol
is that it should look smaller than the -4 (flat), so that it will be
readily interpreted as something that's smaller than a flat, which is
not the case when a slash is added to a flat symbol. Both of our new
versions of -3 (marked "new1" and "new2" according to the symbol set
in which they appear) have a slash added to a flat that has been
reduced in width in order to achieve a smaller appearance, but they
are slightly different for very specific reasons.

For new2, the "flat" portion of the symbol is simply -2 laterally
mirrored, giving the -3 symbol the same amount of white space inside
the loop as in -2. Here the slash portion of the symbol does not
extend to the right of the stem, because it's supposed to resemble
the +1 (half-arrow) symbol in that set.

For new1 the "flat" portion of the -3 symbol is intermediate in width
between the -2 and -4 symbols, and the slash replaces the upper part
of the flat curve, reducing the amount of white space to
approximately the same as in -2. The slash is bisected by the stem
of the flat to form a "plus" sign on the lower part of the stem
resembling the +1 (plus-sign) symbol of the first set.

But you are saying that somehow the "b" is not distinct enough and
that the slash should be moved slightly upward. This would make the
amount of white space intermediate between the -2 semiflat and -4
flat. I have added this as -3b at the lower right part of the
updated figure:

/tuning-math/files/secor/notation/
where the filename is still Symset41.gif

To the immediate left of this I have placed -3a (copy of new1) and -4
(flat) and also, to the immediate right, -2 (semiflat), for an easy
(side-by-side) comparison. At the extreme right is -7b, formed by
combining -3b and -4. Do these meet with your approval?

> 3. I retract my criticism of -1. Upon closer observation, it looks
very good as it is.

Hooray! :-)

Best,

--George