Yahoo Tuning Groups Ultimate Backup tuning hardware and software minimums

Hi All

I haven't been a member of the group or monitored
the messages for about a year or so.

I play and practice on my extremely old non-MIDI Casio
(12 EDO) about 5 days a week.

What are the absolute minimum hardware and software
requirements to get into all this? My main interest
would be playing in the non-EDO 24 tone scale that came
to me a couple years ago.

I don't need to talk about
the keyboard that I would need to buy, just the computer
requirements
(USB, 2 ports? 1? 3?, minimum memory? etc.,
Also, what is DVD/CD-RW?)

and the tuning software I would need to buy, for now
at least. Maybe cheap keyboards next time.

Links are okay of course.

I would rather not search the archives with my 486
at 28.8K.

Thanks for any help,

Stephen Szpak

🔗Carl Lumma <ekin@lumma.org>

Hi Stephen,

You've been on this list for much longer than a year (or,
at least, since much more than a year) ago!

Not sure about your question... what kind of system are
you trying to create? What do you want to do with it?

I take it you want a computer-based music production
system? And that you're starting from scratch?

I'd get a Dell desktop with an LCD monitor. Then use
software like this (this is my personal list)...

Adobe - Audition
Sony - Sound Forge
Mackie - Tracktion
Celemony - Melodyne

Scala
Ableton - Live
Plogue - Bidule
AudioMulch
Tonality Systems - Symbolic Composer
Cycling 74 - Max/MSP

MakeMusic - Finale
Myriad - Harmony Assistant
Seventh String - Transcribe!

Brainspawn - Forte
Synful - Orchestra
rgcaudio - sfz+
rgcaudio - z3ta+
Camel Audio - Cameleon
Linplug - Albino
Linplug - Alpha

All of this is microtonal-friendly, with the exception
of some of the synths in the last group.

Hope this helps!

-Carl

> Hi All
>
> I haven't been a member of the group or monitored
> the messages for about a year or so.
>
> I play and practice on my extremely old non-MIDI Casio
> (12 EDO) about 5 days a week.
>
> What are the absolute minimum hardware and software
> requirements to get into all this? My main interest
> would be playing in the non-EDO 24 tone scale that came
> to me a couple years ago.
>
> I don't need to talk about
> the keyboard that I would need to buy, just the computer
> requirements
> (USB, 2 ports? 1? 3?, minimum memory? etc.,
> Also, what is DVD/CD-RW?)
>
> and the tuning software I would need to buy, for now
> at least. Maybe cheap keyboards next time.
>
> Links are okay of course.
>
> I would rather not search the archives with my 486
> at 28.8K.
>
> Thanks for any help,
>
> Stephen Szpak

🔗Herman Miller <hmiller@IO.COM>

stephenszpak wrote:

> What are the absolute minimum hardware and software
> requirements to get into all this? My main interest
> would be playing in the non-EDO 24 tone scale that came
> to me a couple years ago.

My older system on which I did most of my earlier work was a Pentium 90 MHz Windows 95 system with an AWE32 sound card, with an old version of Cakewalk Home Studio and Cool Edit. So you don't really need a lot of fancy equipment (but a good sound card helps). I use Scala (free download from http://www.xs4all.nl/~huygensf/scala/) to explore scales and retune my synthesizers (Yamaha DX7II and TX81Z), and I've also used the free Midiconv program from Graham Breed's page to retune MIDI files (http://69.10.138.114/~microton/software.htm)

It depends on what you want to do: the newer software synths require faster systems, but you can still do a lot with soundfonts on the old AWE32. My earliest explorations into 19-ET, quarter-comma meantone, Owen Jorgensen's 5-and-7 temperament, and others were done on a 6 MHz Z-80 system. The results were crude, but I suppose even that isn't the absolute minimum; someone's probably done microtonal music on an original 1 MHz Apple II somewhere.

🔗stephenszpak <stephen_szpak@hotmail.com>

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Carl Lumma <ekin@l...> wrote:

Carl

I tend to underestimate the passage of time.

If I do anything it would be from scratch. The first
step is to get a computer (when my federal refund comes).
I want to make sure it has all the basic stuff I need, so
later, I know I didn't mess up.

I have checked out Dell. Some of their systems don't
have Firewire. Is that okay?

Also since this is just music and not video, is a CDRW
sufficient? From what I (just) read I could read and write
to this like it was a floppy.

Perhaps I should ask... are CD ROM's becoming obsolete?
If so then I guess some form of DVD writer/recorder would
be necessary.

Would a low-end microprocessor with 256 MB of RAM be okay?

40 GB hard drive? That is 40GB of space for music stuff?

I just want to play in 24 non-EDO (the Szpak Scale),
hear it, and record what I do once and a while.

What piece of software would take a 5 or 6 octave
keyboard and make the tones go:

0---60.88---100---160.88 etc on the keyboard?

What is the approximate cost of it?

Can't do a whole lot on my salary.

Thanks,

Stephen Szpak

> Hi Stephen,
>
> You've been on this list for much longer than a year (or,
> at least, since much more than a year) ago!
>
> Not sure about your question... what kind of system are
> you trying to create? What do you want to do with it?
>
> I take it you want a computer-based music production
> system? And that you're starting from scratch?
>
> I'd get a Dell desktop with an LCD monitor. Then use
> software like this (this is my personal list)...
>
> Adobe - Audition
> Sony - Sound Forge
> Mackie - Tracktion
> Celemony - Melodyne
>
> Scala
> Ableton - Live
> Plogue - Bidule
> AudioMulch
> Tonality Systems - Symbolic Composer
> Cycling 74 - Max/MSP
>
> MakeMusic - Finale
> Myriad - Harmony Assistant
> Seventh String - Transcribe!
>
> Brainspawn - Forte
> Synful - Orchestra
> rgcaudio - sfz+
> rgcaudio - z3ta+
> Camel Audio - Cameleon
> Linplug - Albino
> Linplug - Alpha
>
> All of this is microtonal-friendly, with the exception
> of some of the synths in the last group.
>
> Hope this helps!
>
> -Carl
>
>
> > Hi All
> >
> > I haven't been a member of the group or monitored
> > the messages for about a year or so.
> >
> > I play and practice on my extremely old non-MIDI Casio
> > (12 EDO) about 5 days a week.
> >
> > What are the absolute minimum hardware and software
> > requirements to get into all this? My main interest
> > would be playing in the non-EDO 24 tone scale that came
> > to me a couple years ago.
> >
> > I don't need to talk about
> > the keyboard that I would need to buy, just the computer
> > requirements
> > (USB, 2 ports? 1? 3?, minimum memory? etc.,
> > Also, what is DVD/CD-RW?)
> >
> > and the tuning software I would need to buy, for now
> > at least. Maybe cheap keyboards next time.
> >
> > Links are okay of course.
> >
> > I would rather not search the archives with my 486
> > at 28.8K.
> >
> > Thanks for any help,
> >
> > Stephen Szpak

🔗stephenszpak <stephen_szpak@hotmail.com>

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Herman Miller <hmiller@I...> wrote:

Herman

Well I don't want a 6MHz system!

I just posted the specifics of what I want to do but after
10 minutes it hasn't come up.

What you seem to be saying is that expertise is more
important than the equipment.

Thanks,

Stephen Szpak

> stephenszpak wrote:
>
> > What are the absolute minimum hardware and software
> > requirements to get into all this? My main interest
> > would be playing in the non-EDO 24 tone scale that came
> > to me a couple years ago.
>
> My older system on which I did most of my earlier work was a
Pentium 90
> MHz Windows 95 system with an AWE32 sound card, with an old version
of
> Cakewalk Home Studio and Cool Edit. So you don't really need a lot
of
> fancy equipment (but a good sound card helps). I use Scala (free
> download from http://www.xs4all.nl/~huygensf/scala/) to explore
scales
> and retune my synthesizers (Yamaha DX7II and TX81Z), and I've also
used
> the free Midiconv program from Graham Breed's page to retune MIDI
files
> (http://69.10.138.114/~microton/software.htm)
>
> It depends on what you want to do: the newer software synths
require
> faster systems, but you can still do a lot with soundfonts on the
old
> AWE32. My earliest explorations into 19-ET, quarter-comma meantone,
Owen
> Jorgensen's 5-and-7 temperament, and others were done on a 6 MHz Z-
80
> system. The results were crude, but I suppose even that isn't the
> absolute minimum; someone's probably done microtonal music on an
> original 1 MHz Apple II somewhere.

🔗Carl Lumma <ekin@lumma.org>

> Carl
>
> I tend to underestimate the passage of time.
>
> If I do anything it would be from scratch. The first
> step is to get a computer (when my federal refund comes).
> I want to make sure it has all the basic stuff I need, so
> later, I know I didn't mess up.
>
> I have checked out Dell. Some of their systems don't
> have Firewire. Is that okay?

FireWire is preferred, but you can always add it later for
like $30, as long as you have a PCI slot available.

The only thing you need FireWire for is an audio interface,
though there is one USB 2 audio interface: the Edirol UA 1000.

> Also since this is just music and not video, is a CDRW
> sufficient? From what I (just) read I could read and write
> to this like it was a floppy.

Er, sufficient for what? Instead of what? The answer is
very probably "no".

> Perhaps I should ask... are CD ROM's becoming obsolete?
> If so then I guess some form of DVD writer/recorder would
> be necessary.

DVD writer is recommended (they also do CDs).

> Would a low-end microprocessor with 256 MB of RAM be okay?

Get a gigabyte of RAM. Low-end processor OK.

> 40 GB hard drive? That is 40GB of space for music stuff?

Yes.

> I just want to play in 24 non-EDO (the Szpak Scale),
> hear it, and record what I do once and a while.
>
> What piece of software would take a 5 or 6 octave
> keyboard and make the tones go:
>
> 0---60.88---100---160.88 etc on the keyboard?

Lots of software can do this -- any microtunable synth.
Get the computer first, and get started with Scala (free).
Then move up to a microtunable synth (depending on what
kind of synthesis you want to do).

But you don't need a computer for this. You might check
out the microtonal synthesis website and find a used
microtunable keyboard for cheap if that's all you want to
do.

-Carl

🔗Rich Holmes <rsholmes@mailbox.syr.edu>

Don't write off the possibility of a Macintosh or Linux system. If
you like Windows, fine, use it (just make sure you exercise diligence
in keeping the malware away, so I don't end up getting spammed via
your machine). I am not by any means into serious music production,
and even less so into microtonal music production, but I can tell you
Scala and Csound both run on a Mac; Csound, a USB MIDI interface, and
an old MIDI-capable keyboard are all I need to do realtime noodling in
microtones. Melody Assistant is shareware notation and sequencing
software with microtonal capabilities. As for soft synths my
experience is limited, but Crystal is phenomenal; it'll play sounds in
the sound font format too, so that opens up a world of sampled sounds
-- but I haven't investigated what, if any, microtonal capabilities it
has. Here's the best part: It's freeware.

On the Linux side I don't know much of what is out there, but I know
there's Scala and some free or shareware synths.

- Rich Holmes

🔗Aaron K. Johnson <akjmicro@comcast.net>

🔗stephenszpak <stephen_szpak@hotmail.com>

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Carl Lumma <ekin@l...> wrote:

Carl

When I see this:

DVD + RW and CD-RW
-

What are they saying the computer has?

Also, is this what you said I need?

I have also seen:

DVD + RW DVD/CD-RW
-

Thanks for the feedback,

Stephen Szpak

> > Carl
> >
> > I tend to underestimate the passage of time.
> >
> > If I do anything it would be from scratch. The first
> > step is to get a computer (when my federal refund comes).
> > I want to make sure it has all the basic stuff I need, so
> > later, I know I didn't mess up.
> >
> > I have checked out Dell. Some of their systems don't
> > have Firewire. Is that okay?
>
> FireWire is preferred, but you can always add it later for
> like $30, as long as you have a PCI slot available.
>
> The only thing you need FireWire for is an audio interface,
> though there is one USB 2 audio interface: the Edirol UA 1000.
>
> > Also since this is just music and not video, is a CDRW
> > sufficient? From what I (just) read I could read and write
> > to this like it was a floppy.
>
> Er, sufficient for what? Instead of what? The answer is
> very probably "no".
>
> > Perhaps I should ask... are CD ROM's becoming obsolete?
> > If so then I guess some form of DVD writer/recorder would
> > be necessary.
>
> DVD writer is recommended (they also do CDs).
>
> > Would a low-end microprocessor with 256 MB of RAM be okay?
>
> Get a gigabyte of RAM. Low-end processor OK.
>
> > 40 GB hard drive? That is 40GB of space for music stuff?
>
> Yes.
>
> > I just want to play in 24 non-EDO (the Szpak Scale),
> > hear it, and record what I do once and a while.
> >
> > What piece of software would take a 5 or 6 octave
> > keyboard and make the tones go:
> >
> > 0---60.88---100---160.88 etc on the keyboard?
>
> Lots of software can do this -- any microtunable synth.
> Get the computer first, and get started with Scala (free).
> Then move up to a microtunable synth (depending on what
> kind of synthesis you want to do).
>
> But you don't need a computer for this. You might check
> out the microtonal synthesis website and find a used
> microtunable keyboard for cheap if that's all you want to
> do.
>
> -Carl

🔗stephenszpak <stephen_szpak@hotmail.com>

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Rich Holmes<rsholmes@m...> wrote:

Rich

Thanks for reponding. I never considered the Apple eMac
or Linux until now.

Thanks to all, got to go for today,

Stephen Szpak

> Don't write off the possibility of a Macintosh or Linux system. If
> you like Windows, fine, use it (just make sure you exercise
diligence
> in keeping the malware away, so I don't end up getting spammed via
> your machine). I am not by any means into serious music production,
> and even less so into microtonal music production, but I can tell
you
> Scala and Csound both run on a Mac; Csound, a USB MIDI interface,
and
> an old MIDI-capable keyboard are all I need to do realtime noodling
in
> microtones. Melody Assistant is shareware notation and sequencing
> software with microtonal capabilities. As for soft synths my
> experience is limited, but Crystal is phenomenal; it'll play sounds
in
> the sound font format too, so that opens up a world of sampled
sounds
> -- but I haven't investigated what, if any, microtonal capabilities
it
> has. Here's the best part: It's freeware.
>
> On the Linux side I don't know much of what is out there, but I know
> there's Scala and some free or shareware synths.
>
> - Rich Holmes

🔗Carl Lumma <ekin@lumma.org>

🔗Jon Szanto <JSZANTO@ADNC.COM>

🔗Carl Lumma <ekin@lumma.org>

🔗Aaron K. Johnson <akjmicro@comcast.net>

On Thursday 17 February 2005 11:07 am, Carl Lumma wrote:
> >C,
> >
> >--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Carl Lumma <ekin@l...> wrote:
> >> Low-end processor OK.
> >
> >Not if you want to be (easily) productive with softsynths. For
> >external gear or audio only, agreed.
>
> Today's low-end processors are fast enough for most users -- they
> don't shut out any applications, just reduce polyphony. Paying for
> more cycles on a netburst chip (Celeron, Pentium 4) is dubious,
> since the performance does not increase proportionally. Better off
> to spend the money on RAM if you're on a budget.

Yes, but how low-end are we talking? I have an old 233Mhz Pentium laptop. It
can barely handle multitracking one mono audio channel over another without
dropouts, let alone more than that. And that's a low-latency Linux kernel in
console mode, which is by far peppier than any Windows machine.

Then again, I haven't tested how much of that dropout situation is just a RAM
issue....I don't have gobs of RAM on that particular laptop.

If by low end, you mean between 500Mhz and 1Ghz, I probably agree, with
reservations.

I think a serious audio person should suck it up and buy an OS-X Mac, which
has the benefits of a Unix-like kernel with a nice GUI, and most professional
commercial applications running on it. I will never give in to Gate's
terrible machine, the most buggy piece of software ever. Even XP still has
problems.

Aaron Krister Johnson
http://www.akjmusic.com
http://www.dividebypi.com

🔗Jon Szanto <JSZANTO@ADNC.COM>

🔗Carl Lumma <ekin@lumma.org>

>> >C,
>> >
>> >--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Carl Lumma <ekin@l...> wrote:
>> >> Low-end processor OK.
>> >
>> >Not if you want to be (easily) productive with softsynths. For
>> >external gear or audio only, agreed.
>>
>> Today's low-end processors are fast enough for most users -- they
>> don't shut out any applications, just reduce polyphony. Paying for
>> more cycles on a netburst chip (Celeron, Pentium 4) is dubious,
>> since the performance does not increase proportionally. Better off
>> to spend the money on RAM if you're on a budget.
>
>Yes, but how low-end are we talking?

Something you can buy from Dell today, if you read the thread.

>If by low end, you mean between 500Mhz and 1Ghz, I probably agree, with
>reservations.

By low end, I mean a 2.8 GHz Pentium 4 ($439 today on Dell.com).

-Carl

🔗Carl Lumma <ekin@lumma.org>

🔗Jon Szanto <JSZANTO@ADNC.COM>

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron K. Johnson" <akjmicro@c...> wrote:
> I think a serious audio person should suck it up and buy an OS-X
Mac, which
> has the benefits of a Unix-like kernel with a nice GUI, and most
professional
> commercial applications running on it. I will never give in to Gate's
> terrible machine, the most buggy piece of software ever. Even XP
still has
> problems.

I'll never be one to get into platform/religious wars. What I will say
is that in spite of feeling pretty much exactly the same as you about
Microsoft and Windows, the time has come where you can build an XP box
that runs completely stable, costs much less, and has many, many more
tools for making music. The DAW I built last year has never crashed,
and I have never been more productive in any music-making adventure
that involved a computer.

Aaron, if one builds a computer for music use only, and is careful in
setting it up, XP can do it. I don't think my experience is a fluke,
and I only offer this in the spirit of "hey, this works for me". I'm
just sorry that nothing else can match a Mac for coolness, drop-dead
coolness!

Cheers,
Jon

🔗Jon Szanto <JSZANTO@ADNC.COM>

🔗Carl Lumma <ekin@lumma.org>

🔗Jon Szanto <JSZANTO@ADNC.COM>

🔗Carl Lumma <ekin@lumma.org>

🔗Aaron K. Johnson <akjmicro@comcast.net>

🔗Jon Szanto <JSZANTO@ADNC.COM>

🔗Ozan Yarman <ozanyarman@superonline.com>

If only there was an all-in-one digitalbox for just music, with all the cool crash-free factory-preset software & built-in hardware (with enough expansion space) for the needs of professional editors/composers/mixers etc... You know, the kind of machine where there are no allocation conflicts and super-efficient memory management with ultra-smooth kernel processing? Where everything is integrated and a touch of a button would do wonders? I would call it "DREAM" (Tm).
----- Original Message -----
From: Jon Szanto
To: tuning@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 17 Şubat 2005 Perşembe 19:44
Subject: [tuning] Re: hardware and software minimums

Cheers,
Jon

🔗David Beardsley <db@biink.com>

Ozan Yarman wrote:

> If only there was an all-in-one digitalbox for just music, with all > the cool crash-free factory-preset software & built-in hardware (with > enough expansion space) for the needs of professional > editors/composers/mixers etc... You know, the kind of machine where > there are no allocation conflicts and super-efficient memory > management with ultra-smooth kernel processing? Where everything is > integrated and a touch of a button would do wonders? I would call > it "DREAM" (Tm).

I'd also call it expensive. Being able to buy a box and load it with the
software of your choice keeps the costs down.

--
* David Beardsley
* microtonal guitar
* http://biink.com/db

🔗Ozan Yarman <ozanyarman@superonline.com>

What if activate-upon-purchase option was implemented? Then you would only
use those that you needed, and could pay later for those that you wanted.

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Beardsley" <db@biink.com>
To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: 18 ï¿½ubat 2005 Cuma 1:06
Subject: Re: [tuning] Re: hardware and software minimums

>
> Ozan Yarman wrote:
>
> > If only there was an all-in-one digitalbox for just music, with all
> > the cool crash-free factory-preset software & built-in hardware (with
> > enough expansion space) for the needs of professional
> > editors/composers/mixers etc... You know, the kind of machine where
> > there are no allocation conflicts and super-efficient memory
> > management with ultra-smooth kernel processing? Where everything is
> > integrated and a touch of a button would do wonders? I would call
> > it "DREAM" (Tm).
>
> I'd also call it expensive. Being able to buy a box and load it with the
> software of your choice keeps the costs down.
>

🔗David Beardsley <db@biink.com>

🔗Carl Lumma <ekin@lumma.org>

Hi Ozan,

>> > If only there was an all-in-one digitalbox for just music, with all
>> > the cool crash-free factory-preset software & built-in hardware (with
>> > enough expansion space) for the needs of professional
>> > editors/composers/mixers etc... You know, the kind of machine where
>> > there are no allocation conflicts and super-efficient memory
>> > management with ultra-smooth kernel processing? Where everything is
>> > integrated and a touch of a button would do wonders? I would call
>> > it "DREAM" (Tm).
>>
>> I'd also call it expensive. Being able to buy a box and load it with the
>> software of your choice keeps the costs down.
>
>What if activate-upon-purchase option was implemented? Then you would only
>use those that you needed, and could pay later for those that you wanted.

The Muse Receptor uses this approach.
http://www.museresearch.com/

See also:
http://www.openlabs.com/
(Interestingly Google fails to find this.)

-Carl

🔗Yahya Abdal-Aziz <yahya@melbpc.org.au>

Ozan,

Sure, why don't we ask Steve Jobs to design us one? :-)

Jon wrote: 'Aaron, if one builds a computer for music use only, and is
careful in
setting it up, XP can do it. I don't think my experience is a fluke,
and I only offer this in the spirit of "hey, this works for me"."

Let me say I've been using Windows daily since version 3.0 (and various
flavours of Unix, including Linux), and have never found a more stable or
reliable version of Windows than XP, both XP Pro & XP Home. Two machines
running here right now for over a year have NEVER crashed despite daily use
with a VERY wide range of applications, including more than a little music.
So now I'll echo Jon and say: "I have never been more productive in any
music-making adventure that involved a computer"!

Regards,
Yahya
-----Original Message-----
From: Ozan Yarman
Sent: Friday 18 February 2005 9:49 am
Subject: Re: [tuning] Re: hardware and software minimums

If only there was an all-in-one digitalbox for just music, with all the
cool crash-free factory-preset software & built-in hardware (with enough
expansion space) for the needs of professional editors/composers/mixers
etc... You know, the kind of machine where there are no allocation conflicts
and super-efficient memory management with ultra-smooth kernel processing?
Where everything is integrated and a touch of a button would do wonders? I
would call it "DREAM" (Tm).
----- Original Message -----
From: Jon Szanto
Sent: 17 ï¿½ubat 2005 Perï¿½embe 19:44
Subject: [tuning] Re: hardware and software minimums

Cheers,
Jon
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.8 - Release Date: 14/2/05

🔗Ozan Yarman <ozanyarman@superonline.com>

There are as yet hackers who give software away for free, if you can risk invasion of your PC by adware, spyware and viruses. The issue is, who would actually want to get involved with risky code when you can get full technical support as well as a functional product. There are ways of integrating the code in such a way as to make it uneconomical and unsafe for hacking.

Yahya, I am betting that XP is good, but Mac OS should not be dumped either. Maybe there should be cross-platform option integrated to such a machine for those who want to switch interfaces on the fly.

Cordially,
Ozan
----- Original Message -----
From: David Beardsley
To: tuning@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 18 Şubat 2005 Cuma 1:59
Subject: Re: [tuning] Re: hardware and software minimums

Ozan Yarman wrote:

>What if activate-upon-purchase option was implemented? Then you would only
>use those that you needed, and could pay later for those that you wanted.
>
>
It could work if the software folks were ok with the possibility of hackers.

I wouldn't be.

--
* David Beardsley
* microtonal guitar
* http://biink.com/db

🔗Aaron K. Johnson <akjmicro@comcast.net>

On Friday 18 February 2005 07:14 am, Ozan Yarman wrote:
> There are as yet hackers who give software away for free, if you can risk
> invasion of your PC by adware, spyware and viruses. The issue is, who would
> actually want to get involved with risky code when you can get full
> technical support as well as a functional product. There are ways of
> integrating the code in such a way as to make it uneconomical and unsafe
> for hacking.

I'm sure this open-source spyware exists, and there is a small risk, but I
think really that many open-source projects are very robust, more robust in
fact than commercial application counterparts. I've been a Linux user for
years, and I have to say I barely ever crash. I'm an open-source believer, as
is Bill Gates, who made XP is good as it is by stealing Free-BSD code.

Not to mention that the target of malicious hackers tends to be Windows. I
don't know of any Linux viruses, and I never got one. I did have my Windows
partition erased by a hacker back in 2001 or so, before I knew enough to
firewall and stop services like telnet, etc. from my computer. Luckily, all
my critical data was on the Linux partition, which fortunately for me, this
a-hole left alone.

>
> Yahya, I am betting that XP is good, but Mac OS should not be dumped
> either. Maybe there should be cross-platform option integrated to such a
> machine for those who want to switch interfaces on the fly.

I like the open-source/Linux/Unix philosophy, I like command-line usage for
certain things, I like the file system structure, and that's why I like the
idea of OS-X, which is a good compromise between open-source and commercial
trends. It's a style thing, though, what matters is the work you can do. So
to each his own.

But I have to say the saddest bit of computing history was the downfall of
BeOS, which was phenomenal. It's still chugging, even developing, but the
chances of getting commercial applications for it are even smaller than
Linux. Plus, it's way behind with new hardware support, something that used
to be true of Linux, but I think is no longer true, such is the growth of
it's user base, especially outside of the U.S. market (Europe, Asia, Africa)

As long as there are broke small governments in the world who seek
connectivity on the cheap, Linux is here to stay!

Aaron Krister Johnson
http://www.akjmusic.com
http://www.dividebypi.com

🔗Jon Szanto <JSZANTO@ADNC.COM>

Aaron,

Be careful: if all we're talking about is making microtonal music with
these things (which is really *all* that is germain in this instance),
then we can avoid any kind of religious fervor! :)

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron K. Johnson" <akjmicro@c...> wrote:
> Not to mention that the target of malicious hackers tends to be Windows.

Look, my DAW is not hooked up to the net, not connected to any other
computer whatsoever. Any programs or data that goes on that box comes
from me, and if it comes from one of my other computers it is always
(as a prudent course) throughly scanned. Hacking is not an issue for me.

> It's a style thing, though, what matters is the work you can do. So
> to each his own.

Absolutely.

> As long as there are broke small governments in the world who seek
> connectivity on the cheap, Linux is here to stay!

Ah, let's stick to music. Otherwise we'll have to start
tuning-evangelism! :)

Cheers,
Jon

🔗Aaron K. Johnson <akjmicro@comcast.net>

On Friday 18 February 2005 10:03 am, Jon Szanto wrote:
> Aaron,
>
> Be careful: if all we're talking about is making microtonal music with
> these things (which is really *all* that is germain in this instance),
> then we can avoid any kind of religious fervor! :)
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron K. Johnson" <akjmicro@c...> wrote:
> > Not to mention that the target of malicious hackers tends to be Windows.
>
> Look, my DAW is not hooked up to the net, not connected to any other
> computer whatsoever. Any programs or data that goes on that box comes
> from me, and if it comes from one of my other computers it is always
> (as a prudent course) throughly scanned. Hacking is not an issue for me.

Of course...

> > It's a style thing, though, what matters is the work you can do. So
> > to each his own.
>
> Absolutely.
>
> > As long as there are broke small governments in the world who seek
> > connectivity on the cheap, Linux is here to stay!
>
> Ah, let's stick to music. Otherwise we'll have to start
> tuning-evangelism! :)

The above statement was less 'evangelism' than statement of economic
necessity. Poorer countries are the largest driving force behind open source
solutions. That fact that I think that is cool is moot!

Best,
Aaron Krister Johnson
http://www.akjmusic.com
http://www.dividebypi.com

🔗stephenszpak <stephen_szpak@hotmail.com>

I've read all your responses. Thanks.

The Dell salesman told me over the phone a number of
days ago that I needed a very expensive system. He didn't
know my specific needs then, but after my posts here to
you guys I can see that spending $3000 is not necessary.
(Couldn't anyway.)

1) There is still confusion about the DVD;;;CD stuff.
What you're saying is that I need a drive that will
read/write DVD's AND read/write CD's ?

a) Why are DVD's used at all? Are CDs becoming obsolete
or is it a storage issue? Both?

2) I would like to take a particular sound from my non-MIDI
keyboard (eventually) and use it in the future in my
playing. Do I just need a microphone and some freeware to
sample it? Should I make sure the future system has a
USB port for this, or are we talking about some other type
of electrical connection?

If nothing financial comes up maybe I can get a system in
a number of weeks. It would be nice to have something decent
even if I don't get a new musical keyboard right away.

Regards,

Stephen Szpak

🔗Carl Lumma <ekin@lumma.org>

> I've read all your responses. Thanks.
>
> The Dell salesman told me over the phone a number of
> days ago that I needed a very expensive system. He didn't
> know my specific needs then, but after my posts here to
> you guys I can see that spending $3000 is not necessary.
> (Couldn't anyway.)
>
> 1) There is still confusion about the DVD;;;CD stuff.
> What you're saying is that I need a drive that will
> read/write DVD's AND read/write CD's ?

You don't need it a DVD writer, but it's nice to have.
All DVD writers also write CDs.

> a) Why are DVD's used at all? Are CDs becoming obsolete
> or is it a storage issue? Both?

CDs are obsolete, but they'll likely be in use for many
years to come. DVDs offer more storage.

> 2) I would like to take a particular sound from my non-MIDI
> keyboard (eventually) and use it in the future in my
> playing. Do I just need a microphone and some freeware to
> sample it?

Yes. Or see if there is a software emulator available.

> Should I make sure the future system has a
> USB port for this,

All computers have USB ports.

> or are we talking about some other type
> of electrical connection?

Instead of using a microphone, you could plug your keyboard
directly into your computer with an analog audio cable.

-Carl

🔗Ozan Yarman <ozanyarman@superonline.com>

🔗Jon Szanto <JSZANTO@ADNC.COM>

Stephen,

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "stephenszpak" <stephen_szpak@h...> wrote:
> 1) There is still confusion about the DVD;;;CD stuff.
> What you're saying is that I need a drive that will
> read/write DVD's AND read/write CD's ?
>
> a) Why are DVD's used at all? Are CDs becoming obsolete
> or is it a storage issue? Both?

Carl can chime in here if he wants. The main thing is that a CD burner
can *only* create CDs, but a DVD burner can create both CDs and DVDs.
If you *ever* might need the latter, it makes sense to get the DVD
drive. Whether CDs become obsolete in the near future I can't say, but
they won't be around forever. In fact, *no* formats will probably last
more than a few years anymore. But, yes, the DVD holds *much* more
data than a CD, and that is one way in which they are used even if one
doesn't burn movies on them. The price difference between the two
kinds of burner drives isn't much, so you should probably consider the
latter.

Last thing: if you ARE sure all you want to do is create CDs, the CD
burner drives will create them a lot faster...

> 2) I would like to take a particular sound from my non-MIDI
> keyboard (eventually) and use it in the future in my
> playing. Do I just need a microphone and some freeware to
> sample it? Should I make sure the future system has a
> USB port for this, or are we talking about some other type
> of electrical connection?

Ah, yes, you *do* have a bit to learn! If your keyboard has audio line
outputs (as opposed to just having some built-in speakers or
something) those would normally be routed to the inputs of an audio
card, and then an application on the computer could be used to record
(and then edit) the music/sound. There are nice applications that
would do this at no cost.

HTH,
Jon

🔗Carl Lumma <ekin@lumma.org>

🔗Jon Szanto <JSZANTO@ADNC.COM>

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Carl Lumma <ekin@l...> wrote:
> >Last thing: if you ARE sure all you want to do is create CDs, the CD
> >burner drives will create them a lot faster...
>
> That's simply not true.

Good turn of phrase! :) But seriously: aren't the fastest CD burning
drives faster than the fastest DVD ones? My data sources (I just
called one of the most reliable comp/tech stores here to ask for sure)
say that while a DVD can move data in larger amounts and faster, the
fastest DVD drives burn a CD at about 40x (and 32x is more likely),
while a dedicated CD burner can safely burn at 52x. And is less expensive.

Cheers,
Jon

🔗Carl Lumma <ekin@lumma.org>

>> >Last thing: if you ARE sure all you want to do is create CDs,
>> >the CD burner drives will create them a lot faster...
>>
>> That's simply not true.
>
>Good turn of phrase! :) But seriously: aren't the fastest CD burning
>drives faster than the fastest DVD ones? My data sources (I just
>called one of the most reliable comp/tech stores here to ask for sure)
>say that while a DVD can move data in larger amounts and faster, the
>fastest DVD drives burn a CD at about 40x (and 32x is more likely),
>while a dedicated CD burner can safely burn at 52x. And is less
>expensive.

All the tests I've seen can't get them t owork any faster than 48x
drives (I personally don't trust anything over 8x for audio). At any
rate, 52x is not "a lot" faster than 48x.

If burning data CDs is a big application for you, you're better
off to have a dedicated CD burner than a combo burner for several
reasons; chiefly reliability. If you're an ordinary user who
burns a few CDs a week, you won't notice any speed difference.

-Carl

🔗Jon Szanto <JSZANTO@ADNC.COM>

🔗Carl Lumma <ekin@lumma.org>

🔗Jon Szanto <JSZANTO@ADNC.COM>

🔗stephenszpak <stephen_szpak@hotmail.com>

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Jon Szanto" <JSZANTO@A...> wrote:

Carl/Jon

Can't believe I forgot about the microphone
output on my Casio!!! (havn't used it for so long
I guess)

> Ah, yes, you *do* have a bit to learn! If your keyboard has audio
line
> outputs (as opposed to just having some built-in speakers or
> something) those would normally be routed to the inputs of an audio
> card,

I'd say I have everything to learn :)

Any particular audio cards recommended when looking for
a computer or are they all much the same?

Is there a input jack on the back of pretty much ever computer
that would accept the 'microphone out'cable from the Casio?

Does it have a name? I don't beleive we're talking USB or
FireWire here, but it is called something.

I think I understand the DVD/CD stuff better. May post something
about that next(?)

Thanks,

Stephen Szpak

All below is old message...

==================================================================

>
> Stephen,
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "stephenszpak" <stephen_szpak@h...>
wrote:
> > 1) There is still confusion about the DVD;;;CD stuff.
> > What you're saying is that I need a drive that will
> > read/write DVD's AND read/write CD's ?
> >
> > a) Why are DVD's used at all? Are CDs becoming obsolete
> > or is it a storage issue? Both?
>
> Carl can chime in here if he wants. The main thing is that a CD
burner
> can *only* create CDs, but a DVD burner can create both CDs and
DVDs.
> If you *ever* might need the latter, it makes sense to get the DVD
> drive. Whether CDs become obsolete in the near future I can't say,
but
> they won't be around forever. In fact, *no* formats will probably
last
> more than a few years anymore. But, yes, the DVD holds *much* more
> data than a CD, and that is one way in which they are used even if
one
> doesn't burn movies on them. The price difference between the two
> kinds of burner drives isn't much, so you should probably consider
the
> latter.
>
> Last thing: if you ARE sure all you want to do is create CDs, the CD
> burner drives will create them a lot faster...
>
> > 2) I would like to take a particular sound from my non-MIDI
> > keyboard (eventually) and use it in the future in my
> > playing. Do I just need a microphone and some freeware to
> > sample it? Should I make sure the future system has a
> > USB port for this, or are we talking about some other type
> > of electrical connection?
>
> Ah, yes, you *do* have a bit to learn! If your keyboard has audio
line
> outputs (as opposed to just having some built-in speakers or
> something) those would normally be routed to the inputs of an audio
> card, and then an application on the computer could be used to
record
> (and then edit) the music/sound. There are nice applications that
> would do this at no cost.
>
> HTH,
> Jon

🔗stephenszpak <stephen_szpak@hotmail.com>

Various computers for sale. PC Magazine Nov. 30 2004.
Click on "REPLY" to see how this should be seen. This
is what they have for DVD and CD drives.

Computer: Gateway

dual-layer DVD+RW and DVD-ROM
-

Computer: Dell

dual-layer DVD+RW and DVD/CD-RW
-

Computer: WinBook

dual-layer DVD+RW and CD-RW
-

Computer: Apple iMac G5

DVD-R/CD-RW SuperDrive

Computer: MPC

DVD+RW and CD-ROM
-

Which drive reads and write CDs and reads and
writes DVDs? DVD+RW
-

I don't understand why so many computer makers
include 2 drives? Is it all about copying the
music from your CD to your DVD?

Stephen Szpak