Yahoo Tuning Groups Ultimate Backup tuning new electonic piece

>If anyone is interested, I could render and post my Csound version of
>Young's piece, maybe five minutes worth or something. The original
>piece is all the same pitches, but sine waves only, all played
>simultaneously as one big throbbing chord.

Oh, sorry, I took this paragraph...

"Gann provides a detailed analysis of the piece, including a complete
list of the harmonics employed. From this I was able to easily produce
a rendering of the piece using Csound. Based on that rendering, I was
inspired to explore some of the component intervals embodied in the
piece. The result is the current work."

...to mean this was more-or-less a transcription. I didn't read...

"For timbral materials, I made an instrument that combines a simulation
of a plucked string (using Csound�s pluck opcode) with a simple
oscillator tone. I did not use a pure sine wave except for the central
drone, but the other tones use relatively pure waveforms consisting
of the first partial with different strengths of the 2nd, 4th, and 8th
partials, so only octaves of the fundamental are used so as not to blur
the pitch ratios that emerge between the voices."

...Is timbre the only difference?

-Carl

🔗Dave Seidel <dave@superluminal.com>

I should make it clearer that I first transcribed it so that I could hear it, but then wrote my own piece as a response to Young's piece. I'll revise the page, thanks.

Young's piece is a continuous drone made from 22 sine-wave generators, where the pitches are all derived as multiples (harmonics) of 7.5. There is no rhythmic movement, all notes are played simultaneously, and they are all pure sine waves.

My piece uses all the same pitches, but plays only one note continuously (not the tonic, but the one in the registral "center"). The remaining 21 pitches are divided into four groups, each one played up and down like a slow arpeggio by a single voice. So it's the same exact pitch material as the Young piece, but played out in a sort of simple four voice counterpoint. This way it gets stretched out horizontally, and since no more than five pitches are sounding at any given point, it's a much sparser texture that Young's piece, giving the user a chance to hear subsets of what was originally one monolithic chord.

- Dave

>>If anyone is interested, I could render and post my Csound version of >>Young's piece, maybe five minutes worth or something. The original >>piece is all the same pitches, but sine waves only, all played >>simultaneously as one big throbbing chord.
> > > Oh, sorry, I took this paragraph...
> > "Gann provides a detailed analysis of the piece, including a complete
> list of the harmonics employed. From this I was able to easily produce
> a rendering of the piece using Csound. Based on that rendering, I was
> inspired to explore some of the component intervals embodied in the
> piece. The result is the current work."
> > ...to mean this was more-or-less a transcription. I didn't read...
> > "For timbral materials, I made an instrument that combines a simulation
> of a plucked string (using Csoundï¿½s pluck opcode) with a simple
> oscillator tone. I did not use a pure sine wave except for the central
> drone, but the other tones use relatively pure waveforms consisting
> of the first partial with different strengths of the 2nd, 4th, and 8th
> partials, so only octaves of the fundamental are used so as not to blur
> the pitch ratios that emerge between the voices."
> > ...Is timbre the only difference?
> > -Carl > > > > > You can configure your subscription by sending an empty email to one
> of these addresses (from the address at which you receive the list):
> tuning-subscribe@yahoogroups.com - join the tuning group.
> tuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com - leave the group.
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> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > > > > >

🔗Carl Lumma <ekin@lumma.org>

>My piece uses all the same pitches, but plays only one note continuously
>(not the tonic, but the one in the registral "center"). The remaining
>21 pitches are divided into four groups, each one played up and down
>like a slow arpeggio by a single voice. So it's the same exact pitch
>material as the Young piece, but played out in a sort of simple four
>voice counterpoint. This way it gets stretched out horizontally, and
>since no more than five pitches are sounding at any given point, it's a
>much sparser texture that Young's piece, giving the user a chance to
>hear subsets of what was originally one monolithic chord.

Aha! In that case, I would like to compare to your rendering of the
original (to answer your previous question).

-C.

🔗Aaron K. Johnson <akjmicro@comcast.net>

Dave-

I liked your 'rendition' of Young's piece. I was wondering what it might sound
like if you put some reverb on it, to give it a little sense of room space,
or cavern space?

Best,
Aaron.

On Thursday 06 January 2005 08:21 pm, Dave Seidel wrote:
> I should make it clearer that I first transcribed it so that I could
> hear it, but then wrote my own piece as a response to Young's piece.
> I'll revise the page, thanks.
>
> Young's piece is a continuous drone made from 22 sine-wave generators,
> where the pitches are all derived as multiples (harmonics) of 7.5.
> There is no rhythmic movement, all notes are played simultaneously, and
> they are all pure sine waves.
>
> My piece uses all the same pitches, but plays only one note continuously
> (not the tonic, but the one in the registral "center"). The remaining
> 21 pitches are divided into four groups, each one played up and down
> like a slow arpeggio by a single voice. So it's the same exact pitch
> material as the Young piece, but played out in a sort of simple four
> voice counterpoint. This way it gets stretched out horizontally, and
> since no more than five pitches are sounding at any given point, it's a
> much sparser texture that Young's piece, giving the user a chance to
> hear subsets of what was originally one monolithic chord.
>
> - Dave
>
> >>If anyone is interested, I could render and post my Csound version of
> >>Young's piece, maybe five minutes worth or something. The original
> >>piece is all the same pitches, but sine waves only, all played
> >>simultaneously as one big throbbing chord.
> >
> > Oh, sorry, I took this paragraph...
> >
> > "Gann provides a detailed analysis of the piece, including a complete
> > list of the harmonics employed. From this I was able to easily produce
> > a rendering of the piece using Csound. Based on that rendering, I was
> > inspired to explore some of the component intervals embodied in the
> > piece. The result is the current work."
> >
> > ...to mean this was more-or-less a transcription. I didn't read...
> >
> > "For timbral materials, I made an instrument that combines a simulation
> > of a plucked string (using Csoundï¿½s pluck opcode) with a simple
> > oscillator tone. I did not use a pure sine wave except for the central
> > drone, but the other tones use relatively pure waveforms consisting
> > of the first partial with different strengths of the 2nd, 4th, and 8th
> > partials, so only octaves of the fundamental are used so as not to blur
> > the pitch ratios that emerge between the voices."
> >
> > ...Is timbre the only difference?
> >
> > -Carl
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > You can configure your subscription by sending an empty email to one
> > of these addresses (from the address at which you receive the list):
> > tuning-subscribe@yahoogroups.com - join the tuning group.
> > tuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com - leave the group.
> > tuning-nomail@yahoogroups.com - turn off mail from the group.
> > tuning-digest@yahoogroups.com - set group to send daily digests.
> > tuning-normal@yahoogroups.com - set group to send individual emails.
> > tuning-help@yahoogroups.com - receive general help information.
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> You can configure your subscription by sending an empty email to one
> of these addresses (from the address at which you receive the list):
> tuning-subscribe@yahoogroups.com - join the tuning group.
> tuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com - leave the group.
> tuning-nomail@yahoogroups.com - turn off mail from the group.
> tuning-digest@yahoogroups.com - set group to send daily digests.
> tuning-normal@yahoogroups.com - set group to send individual emails.
> tuning-help@yahoogroups.com - receive general help information.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

--
Aaron Krister Johnson
http://www.akjmusic.com
http://www.dividebypi.com

🔗Dave Seidel <dave@superluminal.com>

Hi Aaron,

Glad you liked it. Actually, there's already a fairly heavy reverb in there, with a 11-second delay time. But maybe the delay time is *too* long, or I'm not mixing enough of the wet signal into the output. I don't know if you're familiar with Csound, but the reverb is there in the last step of the mixer instrument ("instr 3099"), and the line in the score that sets the reverb parameters is line 137. I'll play with it a bit more, thanks for the feedback.

- Dave

> Dave-
> > I liked your 'rendition' of Young's piece. I was wondering what it might sound > like if you put some reverb on it, to give it a little sense of room space, > or cavern space?
> > Best,
> Aaron.

🔗Dave Seidel <dave@superluminal.com>

OK, I just uploaded 5-minute rendition of the Romantic Symmetry, it's an 11MB file: http://mysterybear.net/files/RomanticSymmetry.mp3. To be very clear, this is *not* my piece, this is my truncated "performance" of La Monte Young's piece.

- Dave

>>My piece uses all the same pitches, but plays only one note continuously >>(not the tonic, but the one in the registral "center"). The remaining >>21 pitches are divided into four groups, each one played up and down >>like a slow arpeggio by a single voice. So it's the same exact pitch >>material as the Young piece, but played out in a sort of simple four >>voice counterpoint. This way it gets stretched out horizontally, and >>since no more than five pitches are sounding at any given point, it's a >>much sparser texture that Young's piece, giving the user a chance to >>hear subsets of what was originally one monolithic chord.
> > > Aha! In that case, I would like to compare to your rendering of the
> original (to answer your previous question).
> > -C.

🔗David Beardsley <db@biink.com>

🔗Dave Seidel <dave@superluminal.com>

🔗David Beardsley <db@biink.com>

🔗Dave Seidel <dave@superluminal.com>

Cool, thanks. Great to get some feedback from a Dream House monitor. :-)

Those are all supposed to be sine waves -- they're each produced in exactly the same way. But maybe there is some sort of distortion happening, either at synthesis time, or when I encoded the WAV output as an MP3.

I've attached the Csound CSD file so you can see what I did (I kept it pretty simple), or even run it yourself if you like.

- Dave

David Beardsley wrote:
> Woah! Sounds like a Dream House to me!
> > But those upper harmonics sound kind of bright to me. La Monte's
> sine tones have no overtones.
> > Other comments to follow...I really liked your melodic version too.
>

[ Attachment content not displayed ]

🔗Ozan Yarman <ozanyarman@superonline.com>

I like the surreal touch. I don't know if I listen to the newly uploaded version, but the reverb is just fine. Bravo Dave.

It just occured to me... are there any female composers/tuners in the list by the way?

All the best,
Ozan Yarman

----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Seidel
To: tuning@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 07 Ocak 2005 Cuma 16:34
Subject: Re: [tuning] new electonic piece

OK, I just uploaded 5-minute rendition of the Romantic Symmetry, it's an
11MB file: http://mysterybear.net/files/RomanticSymmetry.mp3. To be
very clear, this is *not* my piece, this is my truncated "performance"
of La Monte Young's piece.

- Dave

>>My piece uses all the same pitches, but plays only one note continuously
>>(not the tonic, but the one in the registral "center"). The remaining
>>21 pitches are divided into four groups, each one played up and down
>>like a slow arpeggio by a single voice. So it's the same exact pitch
>>material as the Young piece, but played out in a sort of simple four
>>voice counterpoint. This way it gets stretched out horizontally, and
>>since no more than five pitches are sounding at any given point, it's a
>>much sparser texture that Young's piece, giving the user a chance to
>>hear subsets of what was originally one monolithic chord.
>
>
> Aha! In that case, I would like to compare to your rendering of the
> original (to answer your previous question).
>
> -C.

You can configure your subscription by sending an empty email to one
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🔗Dave Seidel <dave@superluminal.com>

Thanks, Ozan! If I might ask, what to you find surreal about it? Not that I have any problem with that term, I'm a big fan of surrealism from way back, but I'm just curious as to what it was about the piece that had that connotation for you.

- Dave

> I like the surreal touch. I don't know if I listen to the newly uploaded > version, but the reverb is just fine. Bravo Dave.
> > It just occured to me... are there any female composers/tuners in the > list by the way?
> > All the best,
> Ozan Yarman
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > *From:* Dave Seidel <mailto:dave@superluminal.com>
> *To:* tuning@yahoogroups.com <mailto:tuning@yahoogroups.com>
> *Sent:* 07 Ocak 2005 Cuma 16:34
> *Subject:* Re: [tuning] new electonic piece
> > OK, I just uploaded 5-minute rendition of the Romantic Symmetry,
> it's an
> 11MB file: http://mysterybear.net/files/RomanticSymmetry.mp3. To be
> very clear, this is *not* my piece, this is my truncated "performance"
> of La Monte Young's piece.
> > - Dave
> > > >>My piece uses all the same pitches, but plays only one note
> continuously
> >>(not the tonic, but the one in the registral "center"). The
> remaining
> >>21 pitches are divided into four groups, each one played up and down
> >>like a slow arpeggio by a single voice. So it's the same exact
> pitch
> >>material as the Young piece, but played out in a sort of simple four
> >>voice counterpoint. This way it gets stretched out horizontally,
> and
> >>since no more than five pitches are sounding at any given point,
> it's a
> >>much sparser texture that Young's piece, giving the user a chance to
> >>hear subsets of what was originally one monolithic chord.
> >
> >
> > Aha! In that case, I would like to compare to your rendering of the
> > original (to answer your previous question).
> >
> > -C.
> > > > You can configure your subscription by sending an empty email to one
> of these addresses (from the address at which you receive the list):
> tuning-subscribe@yahoogroups.com - join the tuning group.
> tuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com - leave the group.
> tuning-nomail@yahoogroups.com - turn off mail from the group.
> tuning-digest@yahoogroups.com - set group to send daily digests.
> tuning-normal@yahoogroups.com - set group to send individual emails.
> tuning-help@yahoogroups.com - receive general help information.
> > > > > > You can configure your subscription by sending an empty email to one
> of these addresses (from the address at which you receive the list):
> tuning-subscribe@yahoogroups.com - join the tuning group.
> tuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com - leave the group.
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> tuning-help@yahoogroups.com - receive general help information.
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🔗Ozan Yarman <ozanyarman@superonline.com>

That's a tough one Dave, but I guess the eerie chords, the very slow
progress of the motives and the quality of sine waves gave me the `surreal`
impression.

Cordially,
Ozan

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Seidel" <dave@superluminal.com>
To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: 08 Ocak 2005 Cumartesi 1:22
Subject: Re: [tuning] new electonic piece

>
> Thanks, Ozan! If I might ask, what to you find surreal about it? Not
> that I have any problem with that term, I'm a big fan of surrealism from
> way back, but I'm just curious as to what it was about the piece that
> had that connotation for you.
>
> - Dave
>
> > I like the surreal touch. I don't know if I listen to the newly uploaded
> > version, but the reverb is just fine. Bravo Dave.
> >
> > It just occured to me... are there any female composers/tuners in the
> > list by the way?
> >
> > All the best,
> > Ozan Yarman