Re: Self-tuning synth

I've just had a look at the hermode.com site, and it answered a few
questions.

Mutabor doesn't look much like what I'm attempting - apart from
anything else, any implementation based on pitch-bend is severely
limited.

HMT looks like what I'm after, although I wasn't aware that the MIDI
standard provided for relative retuning of individual notes. Anyway,
my idea appears to be no more than an implementation of HMT. I may
still do it, because none of the implementations mentioned at
hermode.com offers real-time retuning of a MIDI keyboard.

Thanks again for the expert help - much appreciated.

>HMT looks like what I'm after, although I wasn't aware that the MIDI
>standard provided for relative retuning of individual notes. Anyway,
>my idea appears to be no more than an implementation of HMT. I may
>still do it, because none of the implementations mentioned at
>hermode.com offers real-time retuning of a MIDI keyboard.

Realtime retuning is what HMT is all about. Werner just mentioned
z3ta+. Or am I misunderstanding you?

-Carl

Check out this link: http://world.altavista.com/babelfish/trurl_pagecontent?lp=ja_en&trurl=http%3a%2f%2fwww.midia.co.jp%2fPRODUCTS%2femagicsoft%2flogic_pro7%2flogic_pro_nf6.html

It looks like Logic 7 has some pretty interesting tuning capabilities...

Matthew

>Check out this link:
>http://world.altavista.com/babelfish/trurl_pagecontent?
>lp=ja_en&trurl=http%3a%2f%2fwww.midia.co.jp%2fPRODUCTS%2femagicsoft%2flo
>gic_pro7%2flogic_pro_nf6.html

Or...

http://makeashorterlink.com/?S18B66279

>It looks like Logic 7 has some pretty interesting tuning capabilities...

It does! I wish I could get more specifics from this page. I didn't
see a downloadable manual on Apple's site, but I got the 41-page
"LogicPro7_PO.pdf" and search it for "tuning". Two softsynths support
"stretch tuning", and one of these also supports "tuning", but no more
detail is apparent.

Logic 7 is hugely exciting on a number of fronts. Unfortunately,
to quote MusicThing < http://musicthing.blogspot.com/ >, I can't
afford the $3000 dongle it requires to run (Apple killed the PC
version when they acquired emagic).

-Carl

I feel that someone possesses a Beta Version of Logic 7
and published it without permission of Emagic/Logic.

Nevertheless:
The modes
"3/5 entirely"; 3/5/7 entirely/; 3/5 adaption"
are three Hermode Tuning Modes.

We proposed the names
"HMT Classic"; "HMT Jazz/Pop"; HMT Baroque"
as these names will be better understood by unexperienced
musicians.
Maybe, they will still change this.

Best

Werner Mohrlok

>Werner Mohrlok-----Urspr�ngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Carl Lumma [mailto:ekin@lumma.org]
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 5. Oktober 2004 03:22
> An: tuning@yahoogroups.com
> Betreff: Re: [tuning] Apple Logic 7 and tuning

>>Check out this link:
>>http://world.altavista.com/babelfish/trurl_pagecontent?
>> lp=ja_en&trurl=http%3a%2f%2fwww.midia.co.jp%2fPRODUCTS%2femagicsoft%2flo
>> gic_pro7%2flogic_pro_nf6.html
>>
>> Or...
>> http://makeashorterlink.com/?S18B66279
>
>> It looks like Logic 7 has some pretty interesting tuning capabilities...

> It does! I wish I could get more specifics from this page. I didn't
> see a downloadable manual on Apple's site, but I got the 41-page
> "LogicPro7_PO.pdf" and search it for "tuning". Two softsynths support
> "stretch tuning", and one of these also supports "tuning", but no more
> detail is apparent.
>
> Logic 7 is hugely exciting on a number of fronts. Unfortunately,
> to quote MusicThing < http://musicthing.blogspot.com/ >, I can't
> afford the $3000 dongle it requires to run (Apple killed the PC
> version when they acquired emagic).
>
> -Carl

I guess I should've been clearer...

What I mean is a way to retune any standard MIDI keyboard in real-
time. Sorry for the confusion.

Cheers,
Patty

>I guess I should've been clearer...
>
>What I mean is a way to retune any standard MIDI keyboard in real-
>time. Sorry for the confusion.
>
>Cheers,
>Patty

Strictly speaking, MIDI keyboards are controllers that don't produce
any sound. It's MIDI synthesizers that produce the sound. And the
MIDI spec, which is viewable in all its gruesome detail at...

http://www.midi.org

...*does* provide for realtime retuning, in several ways. It is up
to synthesizer manufacturers to support these features, and while
most don't, some do. Fewer still make them accessible in a way that
I'd call helpful to musicians. But if you explain what exactly
you're trying to do maybe someone here can tell you how to set it
up, or at least point you in the right direction.

-Carl

Dear Carl,

Thanks for a very informative post. What you have described sounds very much like what appears to be going on in Turkish music. The tuning needs to change constantly, in 'real time', to accomodate frequency clusters that make up the 'scales' in the form of distributions (please see my JNMR paper for the model described here).

Do you see possibilities in implementing the said technology to Turkish music per the model (macro_micro seyir) presented in my JNMR paper?

Can Akkoc

Carl Lumma <ekin@lumma.org> wrote:
>I guess I should've been clearer...
>
>What I mean is a way to retune any standard MIDI keyboard in real-time. Sorry for the confusion.
>
>Cheers,
>Patty

Strictly speaking, MIDI keyboards are controllers that don't produce any sound. It's MIDI synthesizers that produce the sound. And the MIDI spec, which is viewable in all its gruesome detail at...

http://www.midi.org

...*does* provide for realtime retuning, in several ways. It is up to synthesizer manufacturers to support these features, and while most don't, some do. Fewer still make them accessible in a way that I'd call helpful to musicians. But if you explain what exactly you're trying to do maybe someone here can tell you how to set it
up, or at least point you in the right direction.

-Carl

Hi Can,

>Thanks for a very informative post. What you have described sounds
>very much like what appears to be going on in Turkish music. The
>tuning needs to change constantly, in 'real time', to accomodate
>frequency clusters that make up the 'scales' in the form of
>distributions (please see my JNMR paper for the model described here).
>
>Do you see possibilities in implementing the said technology to
>Turkish music per the model (macro_micro seyir) presented in my
>JNMR paper?

Yes, it is my belief that MIDI now permits just about any kind of
tuning behavior one could want. Maybe it is not ideal, but it should
work. Finding a synthesizer that supports these MIDI commands is
harder, and of course you will need an instrument that can generate
them.

-Carl