Has anyone come up with this scale yet?

I'd look through the Scala scale archive, but it would obviously take just
about forever. Here it goes:

1/1 = 0.00
13/12 = 138.57
9/8 = 203.91
7/6 = 266.87
5/4 = 386.31
4/3 = 498.05
11/8 = 551.32
3/2 = 702.96
13/8 = 840.53
5/3 = 884.36
7/4 = 968.83
11/6 = 1049.36
2/1 = 1200.00

This is the a combination of two 8:9:10:11:12:13:14 harmonic scales, one a
perfect fourth higher than the other. I'd call it either 'Pervert' or
'ClownTone 13'. It works best for the keys closest to C, obviously.

>I'd look through the Scala scale archive, but it would obviously
>take just about forever. Here it goes:
>
>1/1 = 0.00
>13/12 = 138.57
>9/8 = 203.91
>7/6 = 266.87
>5/4 = 386.31
>4/3 = 498.05
>11/8 = 551.32
>3/2 = 702.96
>13/8 = 840.53
>5/3 = 884.36
>7/4 = 968.83
>11/6 = 1049.36
>2/1 = 1200.00

Scala does it automagically. Just make a scl file like so...

!
Danny Wier's "ClownTone 13" scale.
12
!
13/12
9/8
7/6
5/4
4/3
11/8
3/2
13/8
5/3
7/4
11/6
2/1
!

...and do Analyse -> Compare Scale.

-Carl

Look at Erv Wilson's Helix songs. By making the two series begin at
different places, you get cool "weaving" patterns.

http://www.anaphoria.com/hel.PDF

Gabor

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Danny Wier" <dawiertx@s...> wrote:
> I'd look through the Scala scale archive, but it would obviously
take just
> about forever. Here it goes:
>
> 1/1 = 0.00
> 13/12 = 138.57
> 9/8 = 203.91
> 7/6 = 266.87
> 5/4 = 386.31
> 4/3 = 498.05
> 11/8 = 551.32
> 3/2 = 702.96
> 13/8 = 840.53
> 5/3 = 884.36
> 7/4 = 968.83
> 11/6 = 1049.36
> 2/1 = 1200.00
>
> This is the a combination of two 8:9:10:11:12:13:14 harmonic scales,
one a
> perfect fourth higher than the other. I'd call it either 'Pervert' or
> 'ClownTone 13'. It works best for the keys closest to C, obviously.

I think David Canwright came up with something like this. Also there are the
whole family of helixsong tunings of wilson based on harmonic and subharmonic
series this far apart
http://anaphoria.com/hel.PDF
Danny Wier wrote:

> I'd look through the Scala scale archive, but it would obviously take just
> about forever. Here it goes:
>
> 1/1 = 0.00
> 13/12 = 138.57
> 9/8 = 203.91
> 7/6 = 266.87
> 5/4 = 386.31
> 4/3 = 498.05
> 11/8 = 551.32
> 3/2 = 702.96
> 13/8 = 840.53
> 5/3 = 884.36
> 7/4 = 968.83
> 11/6 = 1049.36
> 2/1 = 1200.00
>
> This is the a combination of two 8:9:10:11:12:13:14 harmonic scales, one a
> perfect fourth higher than the other. I'd call it either 'Pervert' or
> 'ClownTone 13'. It works best for the keys closest to C, obviously.
>
> You can configure your subscription by sending an empty email to one
> of these addresses (from the address at which you receive the list):
> tuning-subscribe@yahoogroups.com - join the tuning group.
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>
>
>
>

-- -Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island
http://www.anaphoria.com
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU 88.9 FM WED 8-9PM PST

From: "Carl Lumma" <ekin@...>

> Scala does it automagically. Just make a scl file like so...
>
> !
> Danny Wier's "ClownTone 13" scale.
> 12
> !
> 13/12
> 9/8
> 7/6
> 5/4
> 4/3
> 11/8
> 3/2
> 13/8
> 5/3
> 7/4
> 11/6
> 2/1
> !
>
> ...and do Analyse -> Compare Scale.

Thank you so much; I wasn't even aware of that function. And it was quick,
considering it compared with over three thousand .scl files!

It's a subset of a few other scales, including one of Partch's (not his
famous 43-tone scale). Try retuning Chopin's 24 preludes and have a listen,
and notice the progression from relative order to absolute chaos back to
relative order.

Anyway, I need to rediscover all my 'Clown' tunings. These are all 12-tone
scales retuned to just intervals, usually for the keys of C, F and G, as
experiments for newbies like myself to get acquainted with the 'color' of
different just intervals, as well as entertain my dissonance fetish.

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Danny Wier" <dawiertx@s...> wrote:
> I'd look through the Scala scale archive, but it would obviously
take just
> about forever. Here it goes:
>
> 1/1 = 0.00
> 13/12 = 138.57
> 9/8 = 203.91
> 7/6 = 266.87
> 5/4 = 386.31
> 4/3 = 498.05
> 11/8 = 551.32
> 3/2 = 702.96
> 13/8 = 840.53
> 5/3 = 884.36
> 7/4 = 968.83
> 11/6 = 1049.36
> 2/1 = 1200.00
>
> This is the a combination of two 8:9:10:11:12:13:14 harmonic
scales, one a
> perfect fourth higher than the other. I'd call it either 'Pervert'
or
> 'ClownTone 13'. It works best for the keys closest to C, obviously.

See /makemicromusic/topicId_6191.html#6289

This was one of the first ways I retuned an electronic organ back in
1963 to experiment with alternate tunings, and it remains one of my
favorite 12-tone JI sets. You can get some nice heptatonic scales
out of this by substituting one or more tones from one heptad to the
other.

--George

>> I'd look through the Scala scale archive, but it would obviously
>> take just about forever. Here it goes:
>>
>> 1/1 = 0.00
>> 13/12 = 138.57
>> 9/8 = 203.91
>> 7/6 = 266.87
>> 5/4 = 386.31
>> 4/3 = 498.05
>> 11/8 = 551.32
>> 3/2 = 702.96
>> 13/8 = 840.53
>> 5/3 = 884.36
>> 7/4 = 968.83
>> 11/6 = 1049.36
>> 2/1 = 1200.00
>>
>> This is the a combination of two 8:9:10:11:12:13:14 harmonic
>> scales, one a perfect fourth higher than the other. I'd call
>> it either 'Pervert' or 'ClownTone 13'. It works best for the
>> keys closest to C, obviously.

I just remembered that David Canright put forth this scale, in
a 1985 article in 1/1...

http://www.redshift.com/~dcanright/piano/index.htm

Check the table....

http://www.redshift.com/~dcanright/piano/tab.htm

-Carl

From: "Carl Lumma" <ekin@...>

> I just remembered that David Canright put forth this scale, in
> a 1985 article in 1/1...
>
> http://www.redshift.com/~dcanright/piano/index.htm
>
> Check the table....
>
> http://www.redshift.com/~dcanright/piano/tab.htm

I use the 7-limit scale a lot too (my universal 'blues' scale, except I
usually change the tritone to 11/8), and I'm training myself to think of
septimal minor intervals like 7/6 as 'blue' in contrast to the 'red' just
minor equivalents, 6/5 in that case. (Pythagorean intervals like 32/27 are
called 'black' and are used as a compromise.) I'm a just intonation fan
myself, and I use 53-tone extended Pythagorean as a measurement
system/approximation since fifths and fourths are as foundational to my
music as octaves.

So this leads me to ask how to write music in the 13-limit scale....

I treat 13-limit intervals the same way as 11-limit, which I call 'green'.
The 13-limit scale has a neutral seventh, semiaugmented fourth, neutral
second and neutral sixth. If 1/1 is C, then the key of G major becomes G
Rast, and the key of F minor becomes an 'ugly' F Rast (Bb is a septimal
fourth, 21/16). I tend to write music that changes mode a lot, having a
sense of tonality but neither being purely major nor minor, almost
twelve-tone or serial in fact. That is, if I ever get the energy and
creativity to write something serious - I usually end up improvising
something on fretless bass as a form of meditation/exploration.

Now where's a good webpage/resource online that talks about how different
just intervals 'feel', rather than what their cents calue are? The aesthetic
difference between the minor thirds 7/6, 32/27 and 6/5, and the major thirds
5/4, 81/64 and 9/7? And the neutral thirds 11/9 and 27/22? I've done
different exercises in ear training (using Scala mostly), but how to I write
real music in JI?

>Now where's a good webpage/resource online that talks about how
>different just intervals 'feel', rather than what their cents
>calue are?

There have been discussions about this on this list in the past,
though I don't know how to tell you to find them in yahoo's
dark archives.

You might check out the message Paul Erlich just posted, pointing
Monty to the harmonic_entropy list and the tetrad listening lab
page on SoundClick (which Joseph Pehrson set up).

>The aesthetic difference between the minor thirds 7/6,
>32/27 and 6/5, and the major thirds 5/4, 81/64 and 9/7? And the
>neutral thirds 11/9 and 27/22? I've done different exercises in
>ear training (using Scala mostly), but how to I write real music
>in JI?

I think composing in JI is a lot like composing in any other
tuning:

() Get an instrument you can express yourself with. Maybe it
is just manuscript paper, maybe it's a refretted guitar or
retunable synth...

() Listen to the music that's come before. I recommend these
albums...

http://lumma.org/

See also Andrew Heathwaite's list of music available online...

http://www.angelfire.com/music2/aah/microtonal/list.html

() Get into a regular habit of composing, daily if possible.

-Carl

From: "Carl Lumma" <ekin@...>

> There have been discussions about this on this list in the past,
> though I don't know how to tell you to find them in yahoo's
> dark archives.

I'll see what I can find. I'm better at googling than archiving...

> See also Andrew Heathwaite's list of music available online...
>
> http://www.angelfire.com/music2/aah/microtonal/list.html

Thank you so much for this link and the other.

One of those links from that page I'm parousing right now is Dante Rosati's
homepage. First, he's a guitarist, and I play fretless bass. Second, his
interests also includes linguistics (including constructed languages) and
religion/spirituality; both of which I'm really into. I need to get working
on my homepage in fact, based a lot on something like his.

He plays 7-limit classical style guitar. I'm aiming for 11-limit and a mix
of Western and Oriental classical styles with modern influences, applied to
rock and rock derivations. I don't do electronic music, but I do music with
electronic instruments.

~Danny~ si hoc legere scis, nimium eruditionis habes.

on 21/5/04 20:44, Danny Wier at dawiertx@sbcglobal.net wrote:

I've done
> different exercises in ear training (using Scala mostly), but how to I write
> real music in JI?
>

You make a choice and stick to it. It's like AA - one day at a time.