Gene's Golden Oldies

I've got some popular music tuned in various manners up on

http://66.98.148.43/~xenharmo/pops.html

Let's go to the hop!

>I've got some popular music tuned in various manners up on
>
>http://66.98.148.43/~xenharmo/pops.html
>
>Let's go to the hop!

Awesome! :):) I'm going to have to wait until tomorrow to
download these...

-Carl

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Gene Ward Smith" <gwsmith@s...> wrote:
> I've got some popular music tuned in various manners up on
>
> http://66.98.148.43/~xenharmo/pops.html
>
> Let's go to the hop!

wow, what great fun! thanks, Gene!

PS -- when i play "You're Gonna Lose That Girl" in WinAmp,
the very first few notes of the melody are coming out
in very dissonant 2-part harmony, then after that it sounds
fine.

PPS -- do you know about my 22edo version of "Glass Onion"?

http://sonic-arts.org/monzo/beatles/glasson2.mid

-monz

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "monz" <monz@a...> wrote:

> PS -- when i play "You're Gonna Lose That Girl" in WinAmp,
> the very first few notes of the melody are coming out
> in very dissonant 2-part harmony, then after that it sounds
> fine.

I hear more dissonace than that. I'd need to analyze it all over
again to find out what I'm responsible for and how much I can
attribute to Lennon & McCartney, who can be pretty sophisticated
harmonically.

>
>
> PPS -- do you know about my 22edo version of "Glass Onion"?
>
> http://sonic-arts.org/monzo/beatles/glasson2.mid

I can't seem to reach your web page, but I do recall it. Last I
checked I couldn't find Verklarte Nacht anymore. :(

hi Gene,

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Gene Ward Smith" <gwsmith@s...> wrote:
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "monz" <monz@a...> wrote:
> >
> > PPS -- do you know about my 22edo version of "Glass Onion"?
> >
> > http://sonic-arts.org/monzo/beatles/glasson2.mid
>
> I can't seem to reach your web page, but I do recall it.

it seems that my server must have had a problem earlier today.
it worked fine for me just now.

> Last I checked I couldn't find Verklarte Nacht anymore. :(

oops! you're right! apparently it got deleted somewhere
along the line, and i never noticed because when i click
the links it works ... i suppose, because it's already on
my hard drive.

anyway, i had to upload it to the tonalsoft site, which
i'm in the process of doing right now, so here it is:

http://tonalsoft.com/monzo/schoenberg/verk/verk-nac.mp3

accesible from my "A Century of New Music in Vienna" page (1899):

http://tonalsoft.com/monzo/schoenberg/Vienna1905.htm

that's the 12edo version.

i also have 3 versions retuned by John deLaubenfels into
adaptive-JI: 5-, 7-, and 11-limit (my favorite) respectively:

http://tonalsoft.com/monzo/schoenberg/verk/adaptune/verk-naccr5.mid
http://tonalsoft.com/monzo/schoenberg/verk/adaptune/verk-naccr7.mid
http://tonalsoft.com/monzo/schoenberg/verk/adaptune/verk-naccr11.mid

(all these files will not be available until probably an hour
or so after i post this.)

-monz

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "monz" <monz@a...> wrote:

> http://tonalsoft.com/monzo/schoenberg/verk/verk-nac.mp3
>
>
> that's the 12edo version.
>
>
>
> i also have 3 versions retuned by John deLaubenfels into
> adaptive-JI: 5-, 7-, and 11-limit (my favorite) respectively:
>
> http://tonalsoft.com/monzo/schoenberg/verk/adaptune/verk-naccr5.mid
> http://tonalsoft.com/monzo/schoenberg/verk/adaptune/verk-naccr7.mid
> http://tonalsoft.com/monzo/schoenberg/verk/adaptune/verk-naccr11.mid

i wrote "my favorite" too soon -- after listening to them
again, i realized that my favorite is actually the 7-limit
adaptive-JI version.

... and before anyone sends me reports of errors: i already
know that all four files have a large silent gap between
8:46 and 34:17.

i only finished the first part, which goes up to 8:45, then
did the very last section, from 34:18 to 35:32.

so if you listen to it and then leave it running and forget
that it's on, you'll be startled when it comes back in 26 minutes
later!

-monz

>http://66.98.148.43/~xenharmo/pops.html
>
>Let's go to the hop!

I did download these, and I liked them a lot. My favs...

Flatt & Scruggs - Beverly Hillbillies
Joni Mitchell - Both Sides
Lennon & McCartney - We Can Work It Out
Meade Lux Lewis - Honky Tonk Train
Medora & White - To The Hop
U2 - Angel of Harlem

...I've often thought that bands like U2 and Ozric Tentacles
would make perfect candidates for alternate tunings, since
they wouldn't face so many of the 'problems' of JI.

Meanwhile, it seems that the blues works very well in
meantone. I wonder how many honky tonk piano could have
been tuned in meantone all along?

-Carl

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Carl Lumma <ekin@l...> wrote:

> ...I've often thought that bands like U2 and Ozric Tentacles
> would make perfect candidates for alternate tunings, since
> they wouldn't face so many of the 'problems' of JI.

Which problems and why not? This U2 piece went well in JI, but it was
the only one I tried.

> Meanwhile, it seems that the blues works very well in
> meantone. I wonder how many honky tonk piano could have
> been tuned in meantone all along?

Probably most. Popular music is short, and short pieces are less
likely to be all over the modulation map. Sometimes meantone doesn't
quite work, but more often it does.

>> ...I've often thought that bands like U2 and Ozric Tentacles
>> would make perfect candidates for alternate tunings, since
>> they wouldn't face so many of the 'problems' of JI.
>
>Which problems and why not? This U2 piece went well in JI, but
>it was the only one I tried.

Wolves and the like (shift/drift). U2 pieces are very minimal,
as are those of Ozric Tentacles. It seems electronic dance
music especially, though not particularly in 12-tET, could easily
and advantageously be not particularly in tuning Zed. In fact
Jacky Ligon seems to have explored this with good results.

-Carl

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Gene Ward Smith" <gwsmith@s...> wrote:
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "monz" <monz@a...> wrote:
>
> > PS -- when i play "You're Gonna Lose That Girl" in WinAmp,
> > the very first few notes of the melody are coming out
> > in very dissonant 2-part harmony, then after that it sounds
> > fine.
>
> I hear more dissonace than that. I'd need to analyze it all over
> again to find out what I'm responsible for and how much I can
> attribute to Lennon & McCartney, who can be pretty sophisticated
> harmonically.
>
> >
> >
> > PPS -- do you know about my 22edo version of "Glass Onion"?
> >
> > http://sonic-arts.org/monzo/beatles/glasson2.mid
>
> I can't seem to reach your web page, but I do recall it. Last I
> checked I couldn't find Verklarte Nacht anymore. :(

These are two of my favorite songs of all time! Still more
harmonically sophisticated Lennon songs include "Lucy in the Sky with
Diamonds" and "I Am the Walrus" -- I'm sure you'll have tons of fun
with those!

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Erlich" <paul@s...> wrote:

...

> These are two of my favorite songs of all time! Still more
> harmonically sophisticated Lennon songs include "Lucy in the Sky
with
> Diamonds" and "I Am the Walrus" -- I'm sure you'll have tons of fun
> with those!

Uhm... I don't think Lucy... will pass the acid test ;-)

And "I Am the Walrus" is maybe the most harmonically sophisticated
song from L&McC. Wonder how Oasis managed to make a cover of it. :D

Max.

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Maximiliano G. Miranda Zanetti"
<giordanobruno76@y...> wrote:
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Erlich" <paul@s...> wrote:
>
> ...
>
> > These are two of my favorite songs of all time! Still more
> > harmonically sophisticated Lennon songs include "Lucy in the Sky
> with
> > Diamonds" and "I Am the Walrus" -- I'm sure you'll have tons of
fun
> > with those!
>
> Uhm... I don't think Lucy... will pass the acid test ;-)

Those modulations are fantastic. All the way around the circle of
fifths!

> And "I Am the Walrus" is maybe the most harmonically sophisticated
> song from L&McC. Wonder how Oasis managed to make a cover of it. :D

Indeed. Well, I believe it's all major chords, so that makes it kind
of easy . . .

In a message dated 2004:01:01 01:06:29 AM, paul@stretch-music.com writes:

>> And "I Am the Walrus" is maybe the most harmonically sophisticated
>> song from L&McC. Wonder how Oasis managed to make a cover of it. :D

They cheated. Used a Fake Book... "Beatles for Dummies" ;)

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hi Max,

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Maximiliano G. Miranda Zanetti"
<giordanobruno76@y...> wrote:

> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Erlich" <paul@s...> wrote:
>
> ...
>
> > These are two of my favorite songs of all time! Still
> > more harmonically sophisticated Lennon songs include
> > "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds" and "I Am the Walrus"
> > -- I'm sure you'll have tons of fun with those!
>
> Uhm... I don't think Lucy... will pass the acid test ;-)
>
> And "I Am the Walrus" is maybe the most harmonically
> sophisticated song from L&McC. Wonder how Oasis managed
> to make a cover of it. :D

"I Am The Walrus" *is* very sophisticated ... but even
moreso is "I Want You (She's So Heavy)" from _Abbey Road_,
which i think is *really* the most harmonically sophisticated
of all L&McC songs ... altho actually both "I Am The Walrus"
and "I Want You" were written pretty much entirely by Lennon.

McCartney tended much more towards a Broadway/pop-tune
kind of harmony ... perhaps his most sophisticated tunes
are "Your Mother Should Know", "When I'm 64", etc. he wrote
a bunch of songs in this same format.

Lennon was very interesting, in that of all four of the
Beatles, he was the real "hard rocker" of the group, and
tended towards very primitive simplistic harmony as in
"Yer Blues" (which, however, is rhythmically *very*
sophisticated!) ... except that every now and then he
wrote something which was really weird and complex.

the most harmonically sophisticated Beatles song of all
is perhaps "Revolution No. 9", a _musique concrete_
assemblage of spliced tape fragments done by Lennon.
a lot of the "harmony" that occurs in that "song" (it
really should be called a "piece") is just random/accidental
stuff that occurred as a result of the tape-splicing process,
but Lennon's artistic vision guided all of it, and i
personally do think it's a wonderful sonic creation.

-monz