Greetings & Guitars

Hello All,

I hope everyone on this list is having a great Christmas. I've been
subscribed to the list since late November but have been reading messages off
of the list off and on for the past 2 years (using the message archive on the
web). Names like Niel Havestick, Paul Erlich, Dante Rosati, Bill Sethares,
monz, John Starret, and others are familiar to me -- I've even emailed a few
of you directly. My name is Jay Rinkel and play guitar as well as lap
dulcimer and a few other things. I've had a dulcimer made for me fretted to
a pure Just Intonation scale.

I'm starting to get interested in acquiring acoustic guitars fretted to
various scales. Scales I'm currently interested in are 19 edo, 22 edo, Lucy
Tuning, and a Pythagorean Scale. I've considered getting a guitar totally
custom made (and I may still do that), but I'm hoping I can get an existing
12 tet guitar refretted to one of these other scales (in hope to save some
$$).

So, my question is, can anyone recommend any luthiers, etc. that can refret
an existing guitar to a different scale? I have been told that it may even
be possible to have the fretboard completely taken off and a new one put on
the neck so that there is no trace of the old frets. Anyone have any
experience with this? Those who have non-12tet guitars, how did you get them
fretted up? I live in North Alabama, so I prefer finding someone in AL, TN,
MS, or GA to do this work, but if not that close, I will consider someone
further out then that.

One additional question. Those of you who have microtonal stringed
instruments. How do you check the pitches of your strings to make sure they
are "on pitch"? I currently have been making CDs from my computer by
generating tones from CSound (and using that to tune my instruments to), but
was wondering if there were any "electronic tuners" that could simply read
out the frequency of pitch played (instead of a 12tet Note name). I also
have been using a little program for my PocketPC which can read out the
frequency it hears -- I've used it to some success.

Thanks in advance. I hope some people can steer my into some useful options
for me.

Jay

on 26/12/03 02:45, Jay Rinkel at jrinkel@hiwaay.net wrote:

> Hello All,
>
> I hope everyone on this list is having a great Christmas. I've been
> subscribed to the list since late November but have been reading messages off
> of the list off and on for the past 2 years (using the message archive on the
> web). Names like Niel Havestick, Paul Erlich, Dante Rosati, Bill Sethares,
> monz, John Starret, and others are familiar to me -- I've even emailed a few
> of you directly. My name is Jay Rinkel and play guitar as well as lap
> dulcimer and a few other things. I've had a dulcimer made for me fretted to
> a pure Just Intonation scale.
>
> I'm starting to get interested in acquiring acoustic guitars fretted to
> various scales. Scales I'm currently interested in are 19 edo, 22 edo, Lucy
> Tuning, and a Pythagorean Scale. I've considered getting a guitar totally
> custom made (and I may still do that), but I'm hoping I can get an existing
> 12 tet guitar refretted to one of these other scales (in hope to save some
> $$).
>
> So, my question is, can anyone recommend any luthiers, etc. that can refret
> an existing guitar to a different scale? I have been told that it may even
> be possible to have the fretboard completely taken off and a new one put on
> the neck so that there is no trace of the old frets. Anyone have any
> experience with this? Those who have non-12tet guitars, how did you get them
> fretted up? I live in North Alabama, so I prefer finding someone in AL, TN,
> MS, or GA to do this work, but if not that close, I will consider someone
> further out then that.
>
> One additional question. Those of you who have microtonal stringed
> instruments. How do you check the pitches of your strings to make sure they
> are "on pitch"? I currently have been making CDs from my computer by
> generating tones from CSound (and using that to tune my instruments to), but
> was wondering if there were any "electronic tuners" that could simply read
> out the frequency of pitch played (instead of a 12tet Note name). I also
> have been using a little program for my PocketPC which can read out the
> frequency it hears -- I've used it to some success.
>
> Thanks in advance. I hope some people can steer my into some useful options
> for me.
>
> Jay
>

Hi Jay

I have a Yamaha classical refretted to 22 tet. I took the scale length and
Paul Erlich gave me fret distances, but I'm sure others could calculate this
for you. The luthier simply removed the existing frets, filled the holes and
refretted. Any decent luthier should be able to do this. Good luck.

Sincerely
a.m.

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Alison Monteith
<alison.monteith3@w...> wrote:
> on 26/12/03 02:45, Jay Rinkel at jrinkel@h... wrote:
>
> > Hello All,
> >
...
> > I'm starting to get interested in acquiring acoustic guitars
fretted to
> > various scales. Scales I'm currently interested in are 19 edo,
22 edo, Lucy
> > Tuning, and a Pythagorean Scale. I've considered getting a
guitar totally
> > custom made (and I may still do that), but I'm hoping I can get
an existing
> > 12 tet guitar refretted to one of these other scales (in hope to
save some
> > $$).
> >
> > So, my question is, can anyone recommend any luthiers, etc. that
can refret
> > an existing guitar to a different scale? I have been told that
it may even
> > be possible to have the fretboard completely taken off and a new
one put on
> > the neck so that there is no trace of the old frets. Anyone have
any
> > experience with this? Those who have non-12tet guitars, how did
you get them
> > fretted up? I live in North Alabama, so I prefer finding someone
in AL, TN,
> > MS, or GA to do this work, but if not that close, I will consider
someone
> > further out then that.
> >
> > One additional question. Those of you who have microtonal
stringed
> > instruments. How do you check the pitches of your strings to
make sure they
> > are "on pitch"? I currently have been making CDs from my
computer by
> > generating tones from CSound (and using that to tune my
instruments to), but
> > was wondering if there were any "electronic tuners" that could
simply read
> > out the frequency of pitch played (instead of a 12tet Note
name). I also
> > have been using a little program for my PocketPC which can read
out the
> > frequency it hears -- I've used it to some success.
> >
> > Thanks in advance. I hope some people can steer my into some
useful options
> > for me.
> >
> > Jay
> >
>
> Hi Jay
>
> I have a Yamaha classical refretted to 22 tet. I took the scale
length and
> Paul Erlich gave me fret distances, but I'm sure others could
calculate this
> for you. The luthier simply removed the existing frets, filled the
holes and
> refretted. Any decent luthier should be able to do this. Good luck.
>
> Sincerely
> a.m.

Well, my luthier can do these refretting stuff, but he's in
Argentina, so may be it's not much help for you ;-)

As far as I know, refretting would mean no great deal to any luthier,
provided they know where to put frets.

You could supply that information to them.

If L stands for the scale length, and F for the frequency of the
desired note (open string = 1, octave = 2, etc.), the corresponding
fret would be

L*(F-1)/F

away from the nut.

So, a JI (3/2) fifth would devide the fingerboard in a third and two
thirds.

If you have the value in cents of a note (c), you get F by raising 2
to the power of (c/1200). For instance, 12-eq fifth is F=1.49831

Max.

On Saturday 27 December 2003 11:07 am, Max wrote:
> [snip]
> You could supply that information to them.
>
> If L stands for the scale length, and F for the frequency of the
> desired note (open string = 1, octave = 2, etc.), the corresponding
> fret would be
>
> L*(F-1)/F
> [snip]

Yeah, the math is not a problem for me -- just making sure I find people who
can do the actual guitar work. Sounds like "any luthier" keeps popping up.
And I just may start looking for "any luthier" that I can find. But still,
if there are known resources it would be nice to know about them... Yep,
Argentina is too far away! :-)

Jay

Jay Rinkel wrote:

>On Saturday 27 December 2003 11:07 am, Max wrote:
> >
>>[snip]
>>You could supply that information to them.
>>
>>If L stands for the scale length, and F for the frequency of the
>>desired note (open string = 1, octave = 2, etc.), the corresponding
>>fret would be
>>
>>L*(F-1)/F
>>[snip]
>> >>
>
>Yeah, the math is not a problem for me -- just making sure I find people who >can do the actual guitar work. Sounds like "any luthier" keeps popping up. >And I just may start looking for "any luthier" that I can find. But still, >if there are known resources it would be nice to know about them... Yep, >Argentina is too far away! :-)
>
The job is too scary for most luthiers.

--
* David Beardsley
* microtonal guitar
* http://biink.com/db

HELLO JAY!
Your reservations about luthiers are more founded that others seem to give credit. One can not just figure out the math of the string length because the person doing the fretting needs to know how to compensate for the bending of strings. Other wise your tuning will not be that acturate. I once made a single moveable fret where i would check the tuning of the open string, then slide the fret up to the pitch i wanted and still afterwards check the open string tuning just to make sure. The
other thing with this it is best o do on one of the middle strings because width of the string doe effect this so the best you cn do is pick one in the middle.
Good luthiers know the secrets to correcting this as much as possible but in reality have never found a guitar capable of being that acturate because of thall the variations unles you have a seperate fret for each string. There is a luthier in LA that has done work for Erv Wilson , Rod Poole and others. In the past a stick or templete is given to him with the theoretical fret positions and he 'corrects' them. If this is within you range of possibility contact offline. Otherwse i know John
Schneider has a guitar where each fret is adjustable and he seems happy with this instrument.

>
> From: Jay Rinkel <jrinkel@hiwaay.net>
> Subject: Re:
>
> On Saturday 27 December 2003 11:07 am, Max wrote:
> > [snip]
> > You could supply that information to them.
> >
> > If L stands for the scale length, and F for the frequency of the
> > desired note (open string = 1, octave = 2, etc.), the corresponding
> > fret would be
> >
> > L*(F-1)/F
> > [snip]
>
> Yeah, the math is not a problem for me -- just making sure I find people who
> can do the actual guitar work. Sounds like "any luthier" keeps popping up.
> And I just may start looking for "any luthier" that I can find. But still,
> if there are known resources it would be nice to know about them... Yep,
> Argentina is too far away! :-)
>
> Jay
>
>

-- -Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island
http://www.anaphoria.com
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU 88.9 FM WED 8-9PM PST

All you have to do is glue idividual fret wires for each string, and tune
the placement by ear using something like Scala to generate the pithces.
That way, your guitar can be as precisely in tune as your ear wants it to
be. I wouldn't trust placing frets by measurement- as Kraig mentioned, there
are too many variables (including the measurement itself) to insure any
accuracy. All regular guitars with single frets for all six strings are out
of tune, unless there are individual adjustable bridges for each string, as
on electric guitars. I am in the process of re-fitting an old flamenco
guitar with fretlets to make a 12-tone JI guitar in standard tuning. Will
post more as it progresses.

Dante

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Jay Rinkel <jrinkel@h...> wrote:

> I'm starting to get interested in acquiring
> acoustic guitars fretted to various scales. Scales
> I'm currently interested in are 19 edo, 22 edo,
> Lucy Tuning, and a Pythagorean Scale. I've considered
> getting a guitar totally custom made (and I may still
> do that), but I'm hoping I can get an existing 12 tet
> guitar refretted to one of these other scales (in hope
> to save some $$).
>
> So, my question is, can anyone recommend any luthiers,
> etc. that can refret an existing guitar to a different
> scale? I have been told that it may even be possible
> to have the fretboard completely taken off and a new one
> put on the neck so that there is no trace of the old frets.
> Anyone have any experience with this? Those who have
> non-12tet guitars, how did you get them fretted up?
> I live in North Alabama, so I prefer finding someone in
> AL, TN, MS, or GA to do this work, but if not that close,
> I will consider someone further out then that.

if you ever come to San Diego, you can stop by the
Sonic Arts Gallery and play on our collection of
refretted guitars. we have 18, 19, 22, and 31.

(but they're all unique instruments and not for sale.)

> One additional question. Those of you who have
> microtonal stringed instruments. How do you check the
> pitches of your strings to make sure they are "on pitch"?
> I currently have been making CDs from my computer by
> generating tones from CSound (and using that to tune
> my instruments to), but was wondering if there were
> any "electronic tuners" that could simply read out the
> frequency of pitch played (instead of a 12tet Note name).
> I also have been using a little program for my PocketPC
> which can read out the frequency it hears -- I've used
> it to some success.
>
> Thanks in advance. I hope some people can steer my into
> some useful options for me.

i tune all my guitars (12 and non-12) by setting the
lowest "E" to my piano and then using the frets to tune
all the other strings.

it's possible to tune open strings to pitches which
are in-between fretted notes, and i do that sometimes too,
but rarely.

-monz

On Saturday 27 December 2003 12:52 pm, you wrote:
> All you have to do is glue idividual fret wires for each string, and tune
> the placement by ear using something like Scala to generate the pithces.
> That way, your guitar can be as precisely in tune as your ear wants it to
> be. I wouldn't trust placing frets by measurement- as Kraig mentioned,
> there are too many variables (including the measurement itself) to insure
> any accuracy. All regular guitars with single frets for all six strings are
> out of tune, unless there are individual adjustable bridges for each
> string, as on electric guitars. I am in the process of re-fitting an old
> flamenco guitar with fretlets to make a 12-tone JI guitar in standard
> tuning. Will post more as it progresses.
>
> Dante
>
>

cool. I am familiar with the process you went through to fret your JI guitar
-- I read about it on your site. You have more patience then myself. I have
also listened to the MP3 files available -- your JI guitar does sound quite
nice. As for the compensation of the string bending -- this is a concern of
mine, and I have had various thoughts on this. John Starret seems to think
that using the "fret math" will be close enough. I did this with my JI
dulcimer. The dulcimer maker claimed he didn't do any string compensation
when placing frets. (I have checked his 12eq fretting with an electronic
tuner and they seem to stay very close for most of the fretboard) I gave him
the measurements and it seems to sound very fine. I have also rationalized
that if the compensation is good enough for 12eq guitar (ok, maybe this is a
BAD rationalization) than it should be good enough for 19eq, 22eq, or
lucyscale.. Nevertheless, I will soak in the comments made here about
whether the straight math is good enough and go from there.

By the way, I'm not too much of a handyman myself so I hesitate to do any of
this guitar work myself.

Jay

on 12/27/03 10:13 AM, Jay Rinkel <jrinkel@hiwaay.net> wrote:

> On Saturday 27 December 2003 11:07 am, Max wrote:
>> [snip]
>> You could supply that information to them.
>>
>> If L stands for the scale length, and F for the frequency of the
>> desired note (open string = 1, octave = 2, etc.), the corresponding
>> fret would be
>>
>> L*(F-1)/F
>> [snip]
>
> Yeah, the math is not a problem for me -- just making sure I find people who
> can do the actual guitar work. Sounds like "any luthier" keeps popping up.
> And I just may start looking for "any luthier" that I can find. But still,
> if there are known resources it would be nice to know about them... Yep,
> Argentina is too far away! :-)
>
> Jay

I just talked to my local luthier John Mello (in Kensington, California) and
he says if he were to do it it would cost $600-$800, but that he realy
doesn't like doing that particular job.

Meanwhile he said he fixed a guitar for someone who had had it refretted to
play a Lou Harrison piece for a CD called (he thinks) Serrato on which David
Tanenbaum played a National steel body guitar. The CD/project was described
in the latest edition of Acoustic Guitar. So John thinks that gooling on
this information might track down the person who did the fingerboard
rebuild. And if not, John can track it down, so just let me know and I'll
get the info from him.

On another topic, since we were talkinga about alternate guitar tunings, he
also recommended a book: Patrick Breen, Guide to Altenrate Tunings for
Guitar which apparently has a wealth of info including what guitarists used
what tunings for what tracks on what album, and complete charts for all the
tunings (whatever that means).

-Kurt

On Saturday 27 December 2003 04:04 pm, Kurt wrote:
>
> I just talked to my local luthier John Mello (in Kensington, California)
> and he says if he were to do it it would cost $600-$800, but that he realy
> doesn't like doing that particular job.

I hope all luthiers aren't as negative toward this sort of thing :-(

>
> Meanwhile he said he fixed a guitar for someone who had had it refretted to
> play a Lou Harrison piece for a CD called (he thinks) Serrato on which
> David Tanenbaum played a National steel body guitar. The CD/project was
> described in the latest edition of Acoustic Guitar. So John thinks that
> gooling on this information might track down the person who did the
> fingerboard rebuild. And if not, John can track it down, so just let me
> know and I'll get the info from him.

Well, let me think on that -- I don't want people to go through extra trouble
...

>
> On another topic, since we were talkinga about alternate guitar tunings, he
> also recommended a book: Patrick Breen, Guide to Altenrate Tunings for
> Guitar which apparently has a wealth of info including what guitarists used
> what tunings for what tracks on what album, and complete charts for all the
> tunings (whatever that means).

To your typical guitar player, "alternate tuning" does not mean the same as
the way you "tuning" people think of it. In 12tet, a guitar is tuned
normally to the notes E A D G B E. "Alternate Tuning" means that a different
set of pitches (still 12 tet) are used. Some famous ones are:

D A D G A D ("DADGAD")
D A D G B E ("Drop D")
D G D G B D ("Open G")

I personally use (besides standard):
C# F# B E B E
E F# B F# B E (Open Esus2)

Jay

Jay Rinkel wrote:

>On Saturday 27 December 2003 04:04 pm, Kurt wrote:
> >
>>I just talked to my local luthier John Mello (in Kensington, California)
>>and he says if he were to do it it would cost $600-$800, but that he realy
>>doesn't like doing that particular job.
>> >>
>
>I hope all luthiers aren't as negative toward this sort of thing :-(
> >

My Just guitar was in this range.

My regular tech won't even give me a price, doesn't want to touch the job.

The next guitar will be fretless with tye-on frets. I already
bought an old Strat Plus, I still have to buy a neck.

--
* David Beardsley
* microtonal guitar
* http://biink.com/db

David Beardsley wrote:

> Jay Rinkel wrote:
> >On Saturday 27 December 2003 04:04 pm, Kurt wrote:
> >>I just talked to my local luthier John Mello (in Kensington, California)
> >>and he says if he were to do it it would cost $600-$800, but that he
> >> realy doesn't like doing that particular job.
> >
> >I hope all luthiers aren't as negative toward this sort of thing :-(
>
> My Just guitar was in this range.
>
> My regular tech won't even give me a price, doesn't want to touch the job.
>
> The next guitar will be fretless with tye-on frets. I already
> bought an old Strat Plus, I still have to buy a neck.

Would it help if I said that I planned on the frets to all go straight all
the way across the fingerboard (not little pieces of frets for each string)?
I'm not planning on doing a JI guitar (at this time). I'm planning on 19/22
tet and LucyScale -- the frets go straight across on these (or at least they
are supposed to!).

We'll see, all of this information will be useful, I'm sure, when I'm ready
to try this out.

Jay

on 27/12/03 23:08, David Beardsley at db@biink.com wrote:

> Jay Rinkel wrote:
>
>> On Saturday 27 December 2003 04:04 pm, Kurt wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I just talked to my local luthier John Mello (in Kensington, California)
>>> and he says if he were to do it it would cost $600-$800, but that he realy
>>> doesn't like doing that particular job.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I hope all luthiers aren't as negative toward this sort of thing :-(
>>
>>
>
> My Just guitar was in this range.
>
> My regular tech won't even give me a price, doesn't want to touch the job.
>
> The next guitar will be fretless with tye-on frets. I already
> bought an old Strat Plus, I still have to buy a neck.
>

My refret job cost £100 sterling. Tie-on frets is an ideal solution and one
I'd forgotten about. My Renaissance lute has nylon tie-on frets and the
trick is getting them on super-tight. I've seen on-line resources with
detailed instructions. A cheap and cheerful solution.

You might also want to check out Dutch guitarist Wim Hoogewerf who uses
mini-movable frets for each string, designed by a German luthier.

Sincerely
a.m.

Alison Monteith wrote:

>on 27/12/03 23:08, David Beardsley at db@biink.com wrote:
> >
>>My Just guitar was in this range.
>>
>>My regular tech won't even give me a price, doesn't want to touch the job.
>>
>>The next guitar will be fretless with tye-on frets. I already
>>bought an old Strat Plus, I still have to buy a neck.
>>
>> >>
>
>My refret job cost �100 sterling. Tie-on frets is an ideal solution and one
>I'd forgotten about. My Renaissance lute has nylon tie-on frets and the
>trick is getting them on super-tight. I've seen on-line resources with
>detailed instructions. A cheap and cheerful solution.
> >
Besides cheap, it solves one of the problems I have with the Just guitar.
Changes in the weather are hell on the guitar. With 65 frets, the neck
changes constantly. Winter is the worst. the rest of the year it's more stable.

>You might also want to check out Dutch guitarist Wim Hoogewerf who uses
>mini-movable frets for each string, designed by a German luthier.
> >
I've played that guitar. Nice solution, but probably kind of pricey!

--
* David Beardsley
* microtonal guitar
* http://biink.com/db

Hi Just Intonation Guitar Guys,

Don't forget my kits for interchangeable fretboards.
The price, $US 300, hasn't changed in over 10 years.
You get four fretboards which you can tune as you
like. You can construct them yourself following a
detailed instruction manual, or pay a luthier to do
it.

--Mark Rankin
P.O. Box 201
Alderpoint, CA 95511

--- David Beardsley <db@biink.com> wrote:
> Alison Monteith wrote:
>
> >on 27/12/03 23:08, David Beardsley at db@biink.com
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>My Just guitar was in this range.
> >>
> >>My regular tech won't even give me a price,
> doesn't want to touch the job.
> >>
> >>The next guitar will be fretless with tye-on
> frets. I already
> >>bought an old Strat Plus, I still have to buy a
> neck.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >My refret job cost �100 sterling. Tie-on frets is
> an ideal solution and one
> >I'd forgotten about. My Renaissance lute has nylon
> tie-on frets and the
> >trick is getting them on super-tight. I've seen
> on-line resources with
> >detailed instructions. A cheap and cheerful
> solution.
> >
> >
> Besides cheap, it solves one of the problems I have
> with the Just guitar.
> Changes in the weather are hell on the guitar. With
> 65 frets, the neck
> changes constantly. Winter is the worst. the rest of
> the year it's more
> stable.
>
> >You might also want to check out Dutch guitarist
> Wim Hoogewerf who uses
> >mini-movable frets for each string, designed by a
> German luthier.
> >
> >
> I've played that guitar. Nice solution, but probably
> kind of pricey!
>
> --
> * David Beardsley
> * microtonal guitar
> * http://biink.com/db
>
>
>

__________________________________
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Niceness ya guys... Hiya Rankin! Stay put a lil more... ya makin me freakkin
dizzy what with all ya geographical zigzaggin moves...

I am rather fond of biwa-like chunkmeister style "frets", quite microtonal,
quite distorted-able... the Muther _Ma_ 'n' _Sawari_ Sound of Japanese music!
AiiiYaaah! IT blows my countryfolk-kin's pipa away...
::*simperhifi&whimper!*::

--- º°`°º ø,¸¸,ø º ° ° º ø ¸ , ø º º ø ø º

Hanuman Zhang, _Gomi no sensei_ [Master of junk]

"To live is to scrounge, taking what you can in order to survive. So,
since living is scrounging, the result of our efforts is to amass a pile of
rubbish."
- Chuang Tzu/Zhuangzi, China, 4th Century BCE

"The most beautiful order is a heap of sweepings piled up at random."
- Heraclitus, Greece, 5th Century BCE

"...So what is life for? Life is for beauty and substance and sound and
colour; and even those are often forbidden by law [socio-cultural conventions].
. . . Why not be free and live your own life? Why follow other people's rules
and live to please others?..." ~Lieh-Tzu/Liezi, Taoist Sage (c. 450- c. 375
BCE)

"Taoism in a nutshell: Shit Happens. Roll with the Punches. Hang 10 - Go
with the Flow!" - anonymous California surfer/Beatnik,circa late 1950's/early
1960's

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Jay Rinkel <jrinkel@h...> wrote:

> One additional question. Those of you who have microtonal stringed
> instruments. How do you check the pitches of your strings to make
sure they
> are "on pitch"?

Hi Jay.

I own 22-equal and 31-equal electric guitars, both refretted by John
Starrett. Electric guitars are typically set up with low action and
low tension, so that the extra tension created in pushing a string
down to a fret is quite small, and the 'naive' fret position formula
(which is what John used) works fine (as long as you have
individually adjustable bridge saddles for each string, as I do on
both guitars, and you intonate each of them carefully -- once a year
should do).

Therefore, to tune either of these guitars, I simply carefully tune
each open string to the corresponding fretted note on the next lower
string, then check the octaves on non-adjacent strings, going back
and iterating, if necessary, until audible 'perfection' is reached --
much the same procedure I use on 12-equal guitar, only more careful.
This works absolutely fine in my experience.

-Paul

Paul (or anyone else),

I'm interested in knowing about (and buying) bridges
with individually adjustable string saddles. Are the
ones you mention made of metal like the typical ones
on electric guitars?

Cipriani used to sell a non-metal one for acoustic
guitars, but his phone was disconnected several years
ago.

I'm hoping someone somewhere is making a non-metal one
for acoustic guitars. If anyone on the list knows of
anyone making one, please let me know.

Thanks,

--Mark Rankin

--- Paul Erlich <paul@stretch-music.com> wrote:
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Jay Rinkel
> <jrinkel@h...> wrote:
>
> > One additional question. Those of you who have
> microtonal stringed
> > instruments. How do you check the pitches of your
> strings to make
> sure they
> > are "on pitch"?
>
> Hi Jay.
>
> I own 22-equal and 31-equal electric guitars, both
> refretted by John
> Starrett. Electric guitars are typically set up with
> low action and
> low tension, so that the extra tension created in
> pushing a string
> down to a fret is quite small, and the 'naive' fret
> position formula
> (which is what John used) works fine (as long as you
> have
> individually adjustable bridge saddles for each
> string, as I do on
> both guitars, and you intonate each of them
> carefully -- once a year
> should do).
>
> Therefore, to tune either of these guitars, I simply
> carefully tune
> each open string to the corresponding fretted note
> on the next lower
> string, then check the octaves on non-adjacent
> strings, going back
> and iterating, if necessary, until audible
> 'perfection' is reached --
> much the same procedure I use on 12-equal guitar,
> only more careful.
> This works absolutely fine in my experience.
>
> -Paul
>
>

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Dear CZ,

I lived on the road for nearly 11 years
circumnavigating the world by thumb, but for the last
12 years I've lived in the same county on the north
coast of California, and for the past 6 years I've
lived on the same homestead. That shouldn't make you
too dizzy!

I do take the occasional vacation. Tell me where you
live and I might come visit you if I'm ever passing
nearby.

Sincerely,

--Mark Rankin

--- czhang23@aol.com wrote:
> Niceness ya guys... Hiya Rankin! Stay put a lil
> more... ya makin me freakkin
> dizzy what with all ya geographical zigzaggin
> moves...
>
> I am rather fond of biwa-like chunkmeister style
> "frets", quite microtonal,
> quite distorted-able... the Muther _Ma_ 'n' _Sawari_
> Sound of Japanese music!
> AiiiYaaah! IT blows my countryfolk-kin's pipa
> away...
> ::*simperhifi&whimper!*::
>
> --- ��`�� �,��,� � � � � � � , � � �
> � � �
>
> Hanuman Zhang, _Gomi no sensei_ [Master of junk]
>
> "To live is to scrounge, taking what you can in
> order to survive. So,
> since living is scrounging, the result of our
> efforts is to amass a pile of
> rubbish."
> - Chuang Tzu/Zhuangzi, China, 4th
> Century BCE
>
> "The most beautiful order is a heap of sweepings
> piled up at random."
> - Heraclitus,
> Greece, 5th Century BCE
>
> "...So what is life for? Life is for beauty and
> substance and sound and
> colour; and even those are often forbidden by law
> [socio-cultural conventions].
> . . . Why not be free and live your own life? Why
> follow other people's rules
> and live to please others?..." ~Lieh-Tzu/Liezi,
> Taoist Sage (c. 450- c. 375
> BCE)
>
> "Taoism in a nutshell: Shit Happens. Roll with
> the Punches. Hang 10 - Go
> with the Flow!" - anonymous California
> surfer/Beatnik,circa late 1950's/early
> 1960's
>

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