FW: [tuning] Re: universal notation

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "stephenszpak" <stephen_szpak@h...> wrote:
>
> Coming up with a one size fits all approach may be the
> best idea, but then again there is Esperanto. Proposed in 1887, it
> was supposed to be the universal spoken and written language. Dr.
> L. L. Zamenhof took parts of several languages and made one. Does
> anyone you know speak Esperanto?

Hi Stephen,

I actually learned some Esperanto as a child, but not having anyone
else to speak or listen, read or write it to, it soon fell into disuse.

I don't believe this is a good analogy for what we're doing here.
Because we're representing not whole words with meaning with our
accidentals, but rather individual sounds, a better analogy would be
to a character set that is used across multiple languages. Remember
the Roman alphabet (also called the Latin alphabet). You're looking at
it now. And so are speakers of French, German, Italian, Spanish, and
30 or 40 other unrelated languages. And in the other half of the world
Chinese characters were similarly successful in being used for
multiple unrelated languages.

But I have used the term "lingua franca" myself in reference to the
sagittal system, and so a better analogy here would be to English,
which is (for better or worse) becoming many people's second language,
in some cases purely for the purpose of communicating with others for
whom English is a second language.

> My idea is to have software (any programmers out there) that
> would take a 4 digit microprinted number next to a note. [look at
> a new 20 dollar bill, go to the right of the lower left number'20'
> to see "The United States of America..." to see how small and
> unobtrusive microprinting can be.] The microprinting would be read
> by the software and converted to the composers own format. The 4
> digit number would be the number of cents up from the tonic that
> the note in question is.

Such numbers would not have to be printed anywhere but simply stored
COMMENT IS BELOW..................
invisibly by the program. You can already do this sort of thing with
Finale and Sibelius. When you put a symbol on the staff, the index of
the symbol in the symbol-table is what is actually stored. Then you
can edit the symbol-table so that a different symbol appears at that
numbered position and all occurrences in your score will automatically
show the new symbol. But of course these programs aren't shareware.
They do however have free downloadable demo versions that can't save
or print.

> Over time (50 years?) I would think one or two standards for
> 15 EDO (and all other EDO's) would emerge on their own just
> because some are logical and most aren't.

Two _have_ emerged. Chain-of-best-fifths with additional accidentals
for one degree up or down, and notation relative to 12-ET with either
cents or additional accidentals for fifth-tones and tenth-tones.

I KNOW I HAVE RESPONDED TO THIS ALREADY, BUT JUST IN CASE, THE NUMBERS
HAVE TO BE PRINTED (MICROPRINTED) ON THE PAGE.THE REASON IS THIS, THE
PAGE EVENTUALLY, BY SOMEONE WILL BE PRINTED. IF IT IS EVER SCANNED INTO
A COMPUTER AT A LATER DATE THIS INFORMATION WILL BE AVAILABLE. THAT IS
THE PARTICULAR OCTAVE AND ALSO THE NUMBER OF CENTS ABOVE THE 'C' NOTE
IN THAT OCTAVE.

STEPHEN SZPAK

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--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Szpak" <stephen_szpak@h...> wrote:
> I KNOW I HAVE RESPONDED TO THIS ALREADY, BUT JUST IN CASE, THE
NUMBERS
> HAVE TO BE PRINTED (MICROPRINTED) ON THE PAGE.THE REASON IS
THIS, THE
> PAGE EVENTUALLY, BY SOMEONE WILL BE PRINTED. IF IT IS EVER
SCANNED INTO
> A COMPUTER AT A LATER DATE THIS INFORMATION WILL BE AVAILABLE.
THAT IS
> THE PARTICULAR OCTAVE AND ALSO THE NUMBER OF CENTS ABOVE THE
'C' NOTE
> IN THAT OCTAVE.
>
> STEPHEN SZPAK

Well Stephen, I did read this the first 2 times you posted it. And it
doesn't help to "shout" (all upper case). :-)

The usual way to distinguish what you write from what you're
responding to is with the ">" signs to the left of the quoted stuff,
as above. If you reply on the Yahoo website this will happen
automatically, but most email programs can do this too.

My assumption was that either the score isn't allowed to be copied
freely in which case the composer would have the file and could
provide translations to whatever notation anyone needed, or she'd put
the file on the web somewhere and anyone could get it and do the
translation themselves. The only time anyone would need to scan would
be if they were planning to make illegal copies (with translation) or
if the file got lost or damaged ... on second thoughts, better print
it on the paper. :-)