Yahoo Tuning Groups Ultimate Backup tuning Suggestions on doing intonation research?

Hi everyone. This is a simple question. I am doing a lot of
research and I'm trying to compile a sense of the resources
available and the best routes to getting through essential basics
of tuning.

I already own:
Helmholtz
Genesis
Harmonic Experience
Music and the Power of Sound
Physics of Barbershop Sound
Jon Catler's The Nature of Music
Blackwood's Structure of Recognizable Diatonic Tunings
The Just Intonation Primer (on its way supposedly)

I'm aware of many web sites and journals (xenharmonicon, 1/1,
etc.) and I have the bibliographies in the other books I have
already. I'm aware of the huge bibliography list online.

Anyway, it's a lot of stuff and I'm trying to find the most logical
direction rather than blindly wade through everything. What other
books should I seriously consider next? Monzo's JustMusic?
What about Tuning, Timbre, Spectrum, Scale?

My other question is, how can I search the tuning list messages
without going through the slow process of searching only a
small portion at once as happens when using the search part of
the message index? I know that google find old tuning list
messages sometimes. Is there a way to search specifically the
tuning list more efficiently?

Thanks everyone!

-Aaron Wolf

🔗Carl Lumma <ekin@lumma.org>

>I already own:
>Helmholtz
>Genesis
>Harmonic Experience
>Music and the Power of Sound
>Physics of Barbershop Sound
>Jon Catler's The Nature of Music
>Blackwood's Structure of Recognizable Diatonic Tunings
>The Just Intonation Primer (on its way supposedly)

Where's Partch's Genesis of a Music!?

>My other question is, how can I search the tuning list messages
>without going through the slow process of searching only a
>small portion at once as happens when using the search part of
>the message index? I know that google find old tuning list
>messages sometimes. Is there a way to search specifically the
>tuning list more efficiently?

Google site-restricted search groups.yahoo.com.

-Carl

🔗Paul Erlich <paul@stretch-music.com>

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "backfromthesilo"
<backfromthesilo@y...> wrote:
> Hi everyone. This is a simple question. I am doing a lot of
> research and I'm trying to compile a sense of the resources
> available and the best routes to getting through essential basics
> of tuning.
>
> I already own:
> Helmholtz
> Genesis
> Harmonic Experience
> Music and the Power of Sound
> Physics of Barbershop Sound
> Jon Catler's The Nature of Music
> Blackwood's Structure of Recognizable Diatonic Tunings
> The Just Intonation Primer (on its way supposedly)
>
> I'm aware of many web sites and journals (xenharmonicon, 1/1,
> etc.) and I have the bibliographies in the other books I have
> already. I'm aware of the huge bibliography list online.

Seek out any writings by Wendy Carlos especially!

> Anyway, it's a lot of stuff and I'm trying to find the most logical
> direction rather than blindly wade through everything.

Hi Aaron,

Though your selection is highly biased toward just intonation, I
think it's an impressive basis for getting at least one version
of 'the essential basics'. The Just Intonation Primer should be a
great way to start, and then when you hit the more outdated stuff
like Helmholtz, you'll already have a more modern perspective on it.
My suggestion is to dive right in, you may find yourself wanting to
re-read each of these works anyway as you spiral your way up the
ladder of tuning knowledge. And nothing's better for learning than
human interaction -- please post as many questions to this list and
others as occur to you in the course of reading; the pooled
experience and knowledge of these groups, available for fairly quick
correspondence, is a resource no book could match.

-Paul

🔗Carl Lumma <ekin@lumma.org>

🔗backfromthesilo <backfromthesilo@yahoo.com>

Paul,

Thanks for all the encouragement. At this point I want to know if
I'm missing some fundamental concept(s) or perspectives. Also
I want to know both for myself learning and to have available for
others if there exist any equal or better books describing tuning
fundamentals in addition to those I have.

Anyway, I'm quite aware of the value of rereading things. I'm
part-way into rerereading Harmonic Experience, and I'm well into
a first reading of both Helmholtz and Blackwood, and I've read
everything else I listed except Genesis.

My impression is that "Tuning, Timbre, Spectrum, Scale" seems
like it actually presents some unique perspectives. What do you
think? Is is worthwhile? (I'm of course asking everyone, not just
Paul).

Aaron

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Erlich" <paul@s...> wrote:
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "backfromthesilo"
> <backfromthesilo@y...> wrote:
> > Hi everyone. This is a simple question. I am doing a lot of
> > research and I'm trying to compile a sense of the resources
> > available and the best routes to getting through essential
basics
> > of tuning.
> >
> > I already own:
> > Helmholtz
> > Genesis
> > Harmonic Experience
> > Music and the Power of Sound
> > Physics of Barbershop Sound
> > Jon Catler's The Nature of Music
> > Blackwood's Structure of Recognizable Diatonic Tunings
> > The Just Intonation Primer (on its way supposedly)
> >
> > I'm aware of many web sites and journals (xenharmonicon,
1/1,
> > etc.) and I have the bibliographies in the other books I have
> > already. I'm aware of the huge bibliography list online.
>
> Seek out any writings by Wendy Carlos especially!
>
> > Anyway, it's a lot of stuff and I'm trying to find the most logical
> > direction rather than blindly wade through everything.
>
> Hi Aaron,
>
> Though your selection is highly biased toward just intonation, I
> think it's an impressive basis for getting at least one version
> of 'the essential basics'. The Just Intonation Primer should be
a
> great way to start, and then when you hit the more outdated
stuff
> like Helmholtz, you'll already have a more modern perspective
on it.
> My suggestion is to dive right in, you may find yourself wanting
to
> re-read each of these works anyway as you spiral your way up
the
> ladder of tuning knowledge. And nothing's better for learning
than
> human interaction -- please post as many questions to this list
and
> others as occur to you in the course of reading; the pooled
> experience and knowledge of these groups, available for fairly
quick
> correspondence, is a resource no book could match.
>
> -Paul

🔗Paul Erlich <paul@stretch-music.com>

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "backfromthesilo"
<backfromthesilo@y...> wrote:
> Paul,
>
> Thanks for all the encouragement. At this point I want to know if
> I'm missing some fundamental concept(s) or perspectives.

Perhaps we all are. In addition to the fundamental concepts and
perspectives that you come into frequent contact with on these lists,
there are philosophies of microtonality that eschew all reference to
ratios, acoustics, psychoacoustics, tonal harmony, etc., and are
interested in progressing 20th century art music forwards through the
novelty of adding new pitches. For example the composers Haba,
Wychnegradsky, and currently the Boston Microtonal Society would fall
into this category.

> Also
> I want to know both for myself learning and to have available for
> others if there exist any equal or better books describing tuning
> fundamentals in addition to those I have.

Did you see my recent post on non-web reading recommendations? That
should cover some bases that your collection doesn't. Also I can ask
you to read my papers, though that may be too biased on my part. I
don't think any one book is that great on its own -- for example
Mandelbaum's book is deeply self-contradictory in one respect -- but
at the same time, you have to reach a certain point where you take
off on your own wings, since reading everything possibly relevant
could itself take a lifetime!

> Anyway, I'm quite aware of the value of rereading things. I'm
> part-way into rerereading Harmonic Experience, and I'm well into
> a first reading of both Helmholtz and Blackwood, and I've read
> everything else I listed except Genesis.
>
> My impression is that "Tuning, Timbre, Spectrum, Scale" seems
> like it actually presents some unique perspectives. What do you
> think? Is is worthwhile? (I'm of course asking everyone, not just
> Paul).
>
> Aaron

Aaron, I'm actually in the process of helping Bill Sethares write a
revised version of this book. I feel there may have been some severe
limitations in the original, and my hope is that I'll be able to give
my highest recommendation to the upcoming revision when it is
printed. Until then, the same basic point is made in many other
places, such as in Wendy Carlos's articles and in what Sethares has
on the web, so you won't necessarily be missing any fundamental ideas.

Cheers,
Paul