Re: [tuning] Re: piano tuning practiceI should be pleased if somebody would b...

In a message dated 9/11/2003 2:06:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
perlich@aya.yale.edu writes:

> 3 identical unison strings will normally have identical spectra, so
> matching them presents no difficulties of the sort you get when you
> try to tune other intervals on the piano.
>

Have you tuned pianos, Paul? I found inharmonicities in single strings,
sometimes old and even rusted. How can you state what difficulties another person
has found?

Johnny

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Afmmjr@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 9/11/2003 2:06:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> perlich@a... writes:
>
> > 3 identical unison strings will normally have identical spectra,
so
> > matching them presents no difficulties of the sort you get when
you
> > try to tune other intervals on the piano.
> >
>
> Have you tuned pianos, Paul?

yes.

> I found inharmonicities in single strings,

yes, all piano strings are inharmonic.

> sometimes old and even rusted.

yes, old and rusted strings will have different inharmonicities and
even "false beats". that's why i said "normally" above --
by "normally" i meant everything in proper condition.

> How can you state what difficulties another person
> has found?

?

In a message dated 9/11/2003 3:07:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
perlich@aya.yale.edu writes:

> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Afmmjr@a... wrote:
> >In a message dated 9/11/2003 2:06:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> >perlich@a... writes:
> >
> >>3 identical unison strings will normally have identical spectra,
> so
> >>matching them presents no difficulties of the sort you get when
> you
> >>try to tune other intervals on the piano.
> >>
> >
> >Have you tuned pianos, Paul?
>
> yes.
>
> >I found inharmonicities in single strings,
>
> yes, all piano strings are inharmonic.
>

Paul, I think you are speaking theoretically, and not practically. That's
why I asked. Since the inharmonicity per a single string is in itself not
identical to that of the other strings it is tuned to, although ideally identical,
it provides quite a challenge in itself. One tries to get a bell-like clarity
when striking the key and I have noted others have found this the greatest
challenge, maybe greater than setting the temperament.

> >sometimes old and even rusted.
>
> yes, old and rusted strings will have different inharmonicities and
> even "false beats". that's why i said "normally" above --
> by "normally" i meant everything in proper condition.
>

Then there is no "normal" for each string has its own inharmonic identity and
must be dealt with...and tuned...accordingly. There is no theoretically
ideal, and therfore "normal," inharmonic piano string to tune one to another. One
must expect rust, unusualnesses, etc.

> >How can you state what difficulties another person
> >has found?
>
> ?
>

Maybe I wasn't clear. If a person finds difficulties doing something, how
could another question those difficulties? Is this not unlike telling someone
what they feel or don't feel, or should feel and should not feel?

best, Johnny

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Afmmjr@a... wrote:

> Maybe I wasn't clear. If a person finds difficulties doing
something, how
> could another question those difficulties? Is this not unlike
telling someone
> what they feel or don't feel, or should feel and should not feel?
>
> best, Johnny

johnny, i did no such thing. the questioner was asking about what top
pianists used, so when i said "normally" to exclude old, rusted
strings, i didn't feel that was out of line, and certainly i didn't
mean to question your experiences or anyone else's. at this point i
don't see that we're actually disagreeing about anything, so we can
probably move anything further off this list.

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Afmmjr@a... wrote:

> There is no theoretically
> ideal, and therfore "normal," inharmonic piano string to tune one
>to another.

well, i may disagree with this sentence depending on what it means.

here is a classic article about inharmonicity, both as theoretically
derived and as actually measured:

http://www.afn.org/~afn49304/youngnew.htm

In a message dated 9/11/2003 4:01:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
perlich@aya.yale.edu writes:

> so when i said "normally" to exclude old, rusted
> strings, i didn't feel that was out of line

Pianists have such pianos in their homes. Johnny

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Afmmjr@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 9/11/2003 4:01:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> perlich@a... writes:
>
> > so when i said "normally" to exclude old, rusted
> > strings, i didn't feel that was out of line
>
> Pianists have such pianos in their homes. Johnny

i have one, and also one with relatively new strings. they are in my
new apartment, where i'm moving on the 16th. two pianos! (moving them
was complete hell) . . . of course i'll be tuning them
microtonally . . .