Re: That elusive "new" microtonal sound so many of us are after...

Glen Peterson wrote:

> > From: Robert C Valentine [mailto:bval@iil.intel.com]
> >
> > Most of it sounds so much like 12tet that you can't notice. I was
> > surprised but probably shouldn't have been.
>
> Bob brings up a point which has interested me for years: What makes a
> tuning system sound distinctly microtonal versus out of tune? Alternately,
> what makes a tuning system sound microtonal and not just more in tune? I
> have experimented with dozens of systems trying to come up with something
> that sounds "new".
>
> Examples:
>
> The Bartok violin concerto with the quartertones, the quartertones are
> hardly noticeable. (but nice if you are paying really close attention)
> What's the point? Just more work for the performer?

Like climbing a large mountain? "Because it's there!"

> Robert Fripp's Johnny One Note solo on "Starless" kicks butt microtonally,
> and he's playing a 12TET instrument.

But when he starts bending notes, it's no longer 12tet! I've got
to admit that Fripp still seems to be coming from 12tet, the notes
he's bending to seem a bit haphazard.

> Ives quarter tone piano pieces sound microtonal, but mostly because he plays
> recognizable melodies and transposes them by quarter tones.
>
> Partch's music finds new consonances, and not just new dissonances or weird
> sounds. He also has melodies with very small microtonal steps in them.
> (Think about some of the harmonic cannon lines)

Or even the parts where he talks in tune or any melody.

> To me his music covers the
> gamut from more out of tune, to more in tune, to new and distinctly
> microtonal.
>
> Most Indian music regularly uses notes 16 cents away from 12TET, and it's
> played over a drone, yet it usually doesn't sound microtonal. It just
> sounds right, or in tune.

The north Indian (Hindustani) music sounds more microtonal
than the southern (Carnatic) music does. I know this explains why
I'm so attracted to Hindustani classical.

> Why?
>
> Jon Catler recently had me cut a neck for him where we added 7-limit Just
> frets to a 12TET guitar neck. That sounded new and microtonal. Maybe
> because of the strength of the 5-limit 12TET system against the purity of
> the occasional 7-limit JI note?

12 tone equal temperament is not a 5 limit ji system. It may
be implied but a carrot is as close as a rabbit gets to a diamond.

The answer to this last example is that while 12tet implies
5 limit ji - 12tet does not imply 7 limit ji. 7 limit ji is new territory
beyond 5 limit.

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>> The Bartok violin concerto with the quartertones, the quartertones are
>> hardly noticeable. (but nice if you are paying really close attention)
>> What's the point? Just more work for the performer?
>
>Like climbing a large mountain? "Because it's there!"

Ugh. Climbing a large mountain "because it's there" is to me no different
than eating a large dog turd "because it's there." Such a titanic effort
should be expended on something which is actually of benefit to our troubled
world. People engage in the foolhardy and much-Romanticized activity of
scaling large mountains primarily for personal glory.

The reason one is faithful to a great but challenging score is not merely
"because it's there," but because great art (which, unlike dog turd-eating,
can be of at least SOME benefit to our troubled world) deserves it.

>>> [Glen Peterson, TD 305.2]
>>>
>>> The Bartok violin concerto with the quartertones, the
>>> quartertones are hardly noticeable. (but nice if you are
>>> paying really close attention) What's the point? Just more
>>> work for the performer?

>> [David Beardsley, TD 305.8]
>>
>> Like climbing a large mountain? "Because it's there!"

> [Dale Scott, TD 305.10]
>
> Ugh. Climbing a large mountain "because it's there" is to me
> no different than eating a large dog turd "because it's there."
> Such a titanic effort should be expended on something which is
> actually of benefit to our troubled world. People engage in the
> foolhardy and much-Romanticized activity of scaling large
> mountains primarily for personal glory.
>
> The reason one is faithful to a great but challenging score is
> not merely "because it's there," but because great art (which,
> unlike dog turd-eating, can be of at least SOME benefit to our
> troubled world) deserves it.

Altho I really can't argue with Dale's second paragraph (and
his main point), it should be noted that many people feel the
urge to scale a large mountain not just 'because it's there'
*nor* just for personal glory, but rather, because climbing to
the top of high a snow-capped mountain can be an extraordinarily
spiritual experience.

I know that sounds off-topic, but often, a great work of art
deserves faithful study and interpretation precisely because
it can similarly nourish one's soul.

-monz

Joseph L. Monzo Philadelphia monz@juno.com
http://www.ixpres.com/interval/monzo/homepage.html
|"...I had broken thru the lattice barrier..."|
| - Erv Wilson |
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