Raga Todi: komal Re, komal Ga, komal Dha

Hello Paul, long time ago, we had taken up the question of komal Re, komal Ga, komal Dha of the raga Todi. I remember that I was not able to resolve the issue of the interval for komal Dha.

Now that I have heard all the combinations of those three notes, I like to present the combination which sounds 'right', for Todi, to my ear:

Remembering that Re, Ga and Dha of Todi are ati-komal ('very flat'), and admitting my response can be considered subjective, this appears to me to be the most Todi-like combination:

Re (ati komal): 256/243
Ga (ati komal): 32/27
Dha (ati komal): 128/81

It seems that all three belong to the Pythagorean tuning. Do you see any problems with this combination?

Regards, and thank you for your time,
Haresh.

hi haresh!

> Hello Paul, long time ago, we had taken up the question of komal
>Re, komal Ga, komal Dha of the raga Todi. I remember that I was not
>able to resolve the issue of the interval for komal Dha.
>
> Now that I have heard all the combinations of those three notes, I
>like to present the combination which sounds 'right', for Todi, to
>my
>ear:
>
> Remembering that Re, Ga and Dha of Todi are ati-komal ('very
>flat'), and admitting my response can be considered subjective, this
>appears to me to be the most Todi-like combination:
>
> Re (ati komal): 256/243
> Ga (ati komal): 32/27
> Dha (ati komal): 128/81
>
> It seems that all three belong to the Pythagorean tuning.

yes, indeed!

> Do you
>see any problems with this combination?

no, and i don't see any wolves either! multiplying all the fractions
by 4/27, you can see that these three notes are forming a 8:9:12
chord. it would resonate nicely on the santoor.

as for the issue we were unable to resolve, didn't it involve the
relationships with some of the other Todi pitches, in particular
wasn't the Ni involved?

-paul

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Erlich" <perlich@a...> wrote:

>>>> as for the issue we were unable to resolve, didn't it involve
the relationships with some of the other Todi pitches, in particular
wasn't the Ni involved? -paul >>>>

Hi Paul, in all likelihood, yes. Let us reflect, in proper
perspective, on any note as a part of improvisation of a raga:

The situation here is quite unlike that in tuning/temperament. Here,
any particular note of a raga is in close relationship with

(i) the note from which it is reached.
In our example, Ni, in the phrase like Dha-Ni-Dha, may not have
the same pitch, as it would have in Sa'-Ni-Sa'. I suspect that the
pitch of Ni in the former case could be a 'trifle' lower than that in
the second case. Even if the phrase is Ni --> Dha, I guess Ni would
tend to lower itself, because Dha is ati-komal, and so the Dha-Ni
distance is much larger than usual.

(ii) Whether the note is a leading note. In our example, Ni is. When
we glide from Ni to Sa' (higher octave), we may be stretching Ni
beyond its normal location. Not only that, we may even be raising the
Sa' beyond its "octave doubling" value, perhaps to fall, for a
moment, into the 3:2 cycle value [higher by 81/80?]

Going back to Todi, the most common pattern is ati-komal Dha, to Ni,
back to ati-komal Dha. This could lower the Ni. The raga Multani has
the same notes as those of Todi, but Multani, when ascending, goes Pa
to Ni to Sa'. In Multani, Dha (komal, not ati-komal) is taken only
descsnding and very sparingly used. This is one way how the two raga-
s with the same notes, differ widely in their aesthetics.

To conclude, for tuning/temperament, we can assign 15/8 to Ni,
without taking into account the shifts which may be taking place, as
speculated above. Please let me have your input.

Thanking you for your time, and with regards
Haresh.