maqamat project

Hello

my name is motii and i am a amatur violin player, i know the 24 and 53
notes methods.
i saw that turkish music is very rich so i want to build new site about
maqamat (both , the arabic and the turkish) ,

now, i have a problem with the turkish maqams since i have no book or
document about them
so i someone can send me a list (or part of list) of turksih maqamat
with/without intervals or notes
that will help me alot

i want the site will include the full list (yup!) os maqamat , reveal
that great music

.Tnx!

>my name is motii and i am a amatur violin player, i know the 24 and 53
>notes methods.
>i saw that turkish music is very rich so i want to build new site about
>maqamat (both , the arabic and the turkish) ,

>now, i have a problem with the turkish maqams since i have no book or
>document about them
>so i someone can send me a list (or part of list) of turksih maqamat
>with/without intervals or notes
>that will help me alot

>i want the site will include the full list (yup!) os maqamat , reveal
>that great music

From ftp://ella.mills.edu/ccm/tuning/papers/modename.txt:

9 8 5 9 9 4 4 5 Maqam Rast
9 4 9 9 4 9 9 Maqam Nahawand
9 8 5 9 8 1 4 4 5 Maqam Yegah
9 4 9 9 4 9 4 5 Maqam Sultaniyegah, Ruhnevaz
4 9 9 9 4 9 9 Maqam Ferahnuma, Askefza
5 12 5 9 5 8 4 5 Maqam Sedaraban
8 5 9 8 5 9 9 Maqam Huseyniasiran
5 12 5 9 4 4 5 4 5 Maqam Suzidil
9 9 4 4 5 9 9 4 Maqam Acemasiran
9 5 4 4 4 5 5 13 4 Maqam Sevkefza
5 9 8 5 9 9 4 4 Maqam Iraq
5 9 8 5 4 5 9 4 4 Maqam Evic, Segah
5 9 8 1 4 4 5 9 4 4 Maqam Ferahnak
5 13 4 9 5 13 4 Maqam Evicara (Evcara)
9 9 4 9 9 4 5 4 Maqam Mahur
9 5 4 4 4 5 9 4 5 4 Maqam Suzidilara
9 9 4 4 5 9 4 4 5 Maqam Buzurk
5 4 4 4 5 9 4 9 9 Maqam Suzinak
5 12 5 5 4 4 4 5 9 Maqam Zirguleli Suzinak
5 12 5 9 5 3 5 4 5 Maqam Hicazkar
4 1 4 4 4 5 9 4 4 5 9 Maqam Kurdilihicazkar
9 4 9 5 4 4 5 8 5 Maqam Nihavend (Nihavent)
9 5 12 5 5 12 5 Maqam Neveser
9 5 12 5 9 4 4 5 Maqam Nikriz
8 5 9 9 4 4 5 9 Maqam Huseyni, Muhayyer, Neva
8 5 9 5 4 4 4 5 9 Maqam Gulizar, Beyati, Karcigar
8 5 9 9 4 9 9 Maqam Ussak, Acem
4 4 1 4 9 4 5 4 9 9 Maqam Kurdi
9 4 9 5 4 4 4 5 4 5 Maqam Buselik (Puselik)
8 5 9 5 3 1 4 4 5 9 Maqam Arazbar
5 12 5 9 4 4 5 9 Maqam Hicaz, Uzzal, Humayun
5 12 5 9 4 1 8 4 5 Maqam Zirgule
5 12 5 9 4 1 3 5 4 5 Maqam Sehnaz
8 5 5 13 4 9 9 Maqam Saba, Sunbule
8 5 5 13 4 4 5 5 4 Maqam Kucek
8 5 5 1 3 9 4 4 5 4 5 Maqam Eski Sipihr
4 4 5 4 1 13 4 9 9 Maqam Dugah
8 5 9 4 5 4 1 8 4 5 Maqam Hisar
5 3 5 4 5 4 5 4 1 3 5 4 5 Maqam Yeni Sipihr
9 8 5 9 5 8 9 Maqam Nisaburek
5 9 5 12 5 9 4 4 Maqam Huzzam
9 5 8 9 5 9 4 4 Maqam Mustear
5 9 8 1 4 9 9 8 Maqam Maye (Yeni Maye)
1 4 9 8 5 9 9 3 5 Maqam Vechi Arazbar
8 5 9 4 9 9 4 5 Maqam Nisabur
5 13 4 9 5 12 5 Maqam Cargah I
9 9 4 9 9 9 4 Maqam Cargah II
5 8 13 5 5 8 4 5 Maqam Araban
9 8 5 9 9 5 8 Maqam Urmawi

Perhaps Manuel can elaborate on where he combined ascending and descending
versions, collapsed multi-octave modes to one octave, etc.

> now, i have a problem with the turkish maqams since i have no book or
> document about them

This obstacle you must really overcome before you can start
documenting them.

> Perhaps Manuel can elaborate on where he combined ascending and
descending
> versions, collapsed multi-octave modes to one octave, etc.

Well I don't recommend taking that list as a starting point
for a comprehensive maqam overview because it doesn't contain
vital features like which note is finalis, which one
initialis, which notes are used in the low, middle and high
register, which notes can be altered in upward or downward
melodic movement, which notes are dominant, etc.
First it is important to decide which notation system to use.
The Arel-Ezgi system is now used most, but there's also the
older system of Yekta. So if scores are studied, one must
know which system is used so as not to make wrong
interpretations. For example a # means 4 commas sharp and
a b 5 commas flat in the Arel-Ezgi system, but a b in the
Yekta system means 3 commas flat. There are more differences
like that.
Now in the given list, the first note is the finalis. The first
note in a maqam is usually not the finalis however. I have only
listed notes from the finalis until one octave above it, and not
collapsed anything to one octave. Altered notes are also
inserted, but from the list it's of course impossible to tell
which is the altered and unaltered one.

Manuel Op de Coul coul@ezh.nl

At 22:22 9/1/99 +0200, you wrote:
>From: <manuel.op.de.coul@ezh.nl>
>
>
>
>> now, i have a problem with the turkish maqams since i have no book or
>> document about them
>
>This obstacle you must really overcome before you can start
>documenting them.
>
>> Perhaps Manuel can elaborate on where he combined ascending and
>descending
>> versions, collapsed multi-octave modes to one octave, etc.
>
>Well I don't recommend taking that list as a starting point
>for a comprehensive maqam overview because it doesn't contain
>vital features like which note is finalis, which one
>initialis, which notes are used in the low, middle and high
>register, which notes can be altered in upward or downward
>melodic movement, which notes are dominant, etc.
***************************************************************

Dear Manuel,

I commend you for this remark and disclaimer. You are, in my
humble judgement, right on the mark. From my conversations with
master musicians of traditional Turkish music and observing their
interactions with their apprentices during masters classes, I am
inclined to think of other countless traditions coming from the
'dergah' era that can be added to this list of 'cautions'.
***************************************************************

>First it is important to decide which notation system to use.
>The Arel-Ezgi system is now used most, but there's also the
>older system of Yekta. So if scores are studied, one must
>know which system is used so as not to make wrong
>interpretations. For example a # means 4 commas sharp and
>a b 5 commas flat in the Arel-Ezgi system, but a b in the
>Yekta system means 3 commas flat. There are more differences
>like that.

***************************************************************

These 'systems' do not seem to be serving Turkish music well
as it has evolved during the 'dergah' era. I have met musicians
trained by masters from the dergah who view the Arel-Ezgi system
as a 'joke'. First of all the 'scales' for the makamat are not
fixed discrete points on the pitch axis. The deviations you have
alluded to in your opening statement seem to be 'essential'.
Secondly, most master musicians I have talked to feel that the
modified western notation adopted for scoring since the past 150
years does not match the 'anatomy' of Turkish music. A more
acceptable notation was introduced by a Turkish musician of
Armenian descent Mr. Hampartzum Limonciyan (1768-1839). Not very
many people use this scoring nowadays.
***************************************************************

>Now in the given list, the first note is the finalis. The first
>note in a maqam is usually not the finalis however. I have only
>listed notes from the finalis until one octave above it, and not
>collapsed anything to one octave. Altered notes are also
>inserted, but from the list it's of course impossible to tell
>which is the altered and unaltered one.
>
>Manuel Op de Coul coul@ezh.nl
>
>
***************************************************************

Best regards, and thank you for the information on Turkish music.

Dr. Can Akkoc
Alabama School of Mathematics and Science
1255 Dauphin Street
Mobile, AL 36604
USA

Phone: (334) 441-2126
Fax: (334) 441-3290
Web: http://199.20.31.100/GIFT/