re: Bandwidth (Paul Erlich)

>My statement referred to random, uncontrolled deviations from 12-tET, in the
>context of solo singers accompanied instrumentally.

Are you sure they're random?

>Professional vocal harmonies do tend toward JI intervals.

At a given time, yes, and with far less a bandwidth than 60 cents.

But how do you describe the tuning of a passage? How do singers balance
the factors of common tones vs. pitch shift? What scale do singers use
when harmony is not involved? Many of your posts over the years seem to
ignore the difference between a description of vertical events and of
horizontal ones.

In the case of melody (whether it is tied rhythmically to a harmony or
not), why should we take fixed scales and say that performers deviate from
them (unless the deviations are truely random)? Is it possible that
performers have the ideal scale, to which fixed scales are an
approximation? Are you sure accuracy of tuning beyond the 3-limit is not
important in melody (as stated in your paper)?

-C.

Carl Lumma wrote:

> Is it possible that
> performers have the ideal scale, to which fixed scales are an
> approximation?

I believe that this is closer to the money and that these scales allow such
things as commatic shifts. The ear will always outdo "practicality"

>
> -C.

-- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island
http://www.anaphoria.com

At 10:18 8/28/99 -0400, you wrote:
>From: Carl Lumma <clumma@nni.com>
>
>>My statement referred to random, uncontrolled deviations from 12-tET, in the
>>context of solo singers accompanied instrumentally.
>
>Are you sure they're random?
>
>
>>Professional vocal harmonies do tend toward JI intervals.
>
>At a given time, yes, and with far less a bandwidth than 60 cents.
>
>But how do you describe the tuning of a passage? How do singers balance
>the factors of common tones vs. pitch shift? What scale do singers use
>when harmony is not involved? Many of your posts over the years seem to
>ignore the difference between a description of vertical events and of
>horizontal ones.
>
>In the case of melody (whether it is tied rhythmically to a harmony or
>not), why should we take fixed scales and say that performers deviate from
>them (unless the deviations are truely random)? Is it possible that
>performers have the ideal scale, to which fixed scales are an
>approximation? Are you sure accuracy of tuning beyond the 3-limit is not
>important in melody (as stated in your paper)?
>
>-C.
>
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Dr. Lumma,

"Is it possible that performers have the ideal scale, to which fixed
scales are an approximation?"

Based on my measurements on improvisations made by master musicians, I
truly believe this is precisely what is happening in traditional Turkish
music. 'Legendary' performers of Turkish music, such as neyzen Niyazi SAYIN
seem to be creating a multiplicity of scales at the MICRO level, superposed
on a macro scale in the backdrop. These micro scales are not fixed either,
and they vary from one performance to another, depending upon the spiritual
state the musician happens to be at the time.

When one looks at the distribution of pitches used by the master musician,
they invariably form clusters of varying band widths around, what appear to
be, a scale of 'anchor sounds'.

Dr. Can Akkoc
Alabama School of Mathematics and Science
1255 Dauphin Street
Mobile, AL 36604
USA

Phone: (334) 441-2126
Fax: (334) 441-3290
Web: http://199.20.31.100/GIFT/