Re: [tuning] Digest Number 2594

>
> Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 02:36:04 -0700
> From: Kurt Bigler <kkb@breathsense.com>
> Subject: Re: Re: Messiaen's use of harmonic series
>

>
> Yes, that's interesting. Numbers are definitely a force in the
> "unconscious". I think this is so deep that I never even considered trying
> to approach this consciously as it might relate to pitch and interval
> sensibilities, and I don't know how it relates to the "forces" that I feel.
> I think the forces that I feel are somehow very related to the body, to what
> I experience as the space inside the body and how it by being present here
> the space inside me is resonating with the things I am considering in a
> "bodily" way (not just in a cognitive way), which is how music has to be for
> me, though I usually don't talk too much about this. Its not that I'm not
> _extremely_ cognitive, but by and large the cognitive in spite of its
> complexity and vastness, is just a reflection of something even more vast
> and beyond understanding. Even the body itself which is very "finite" is
> also rather infinite if looked at from the inside. The capacities for
> assimilation of forms, "resonances", bodily "reflection", and various things
> which we consider "cognitive" have a lot of depth that goes beyond what we
> can understand consciously. Little do we know what we are doing when we say
> we are "thinking" and many people mean something very different by the same
> word.
>
> So as regards primes, I think the aspect of existence we call "number" goes
> very deep in experience. I started to write a little about this, but it got
> way too long, and I'm not sure of its relevance. I feel like I've already
> written enough longish things that tend to be off-topic-ish lately. So I'll
> send it too you (monz) directly, off-list, and if anybody else wants an
> experiential reflection on "number" that is sort of half-baked, let me know.
>
> But tell me: what is the particular connection you are seeing that led you
> to respond? I had mentioned "forces" and so forth, but I'm not sure which
> thing you were picking up on. I think maybe you are talking about the
> possible connection between the experience of reconciling different forces
> musically and some numerical linguistic level which somehow may underlying
> the experience of pitch relationships, that the "forces" are the force of an
> underlying language, perhaps an experirence of bumping into the "structures"
> inherent in that space of relationships. Is that something like what you
> are saying?
>
> -Kurt

You are wrong Kurt ! This is not interestingŠ but much, much interesting. In
my way of thinking, that is fundamental ! Consciousness is not enough to
define an human being (living beingŠ). Just like ratios are not enough to
define musicŠ
I had a good experiment with a group about ten years ago during a little
more than 3 years. The experiment was based on "resonance corporeal" and it
was postulate that the harmonic scale is integrated in us.

I win a lot in this experience, in music practice but not only, like
something close to eloquence, but not exactly. Anyway very useful for
teachingŠ
With my so poor english, I will no try to said much about this, only few
things :
One point I clearly experiment was that the body resound mostly to any
sound. And this is quite more important, EVEN FOR THE UNDERSTANDING, than
the meaning of the sound (for example the meaning of the words) !
There is a way to speak, in front of people, to be understand, like way to
be not. And the choice of the words doesn't matter so much in this.
A second point was that every one is particular. For me one point was that
some place in my body didn't resound at all. Just like died place.
A third point was that you can, with practice, really and with much
accuracy, feel if the people in front of you resound or not and work on it.
Even unconsciously that work with more and more practice, you don't have to
manage, it just happen.
And with much more practice, some one can tell you where you don't resound
when he is speaking (it looks to be close that you call reflection). I had
experiment of this in front the teacher. Quite incredible that he can tell
me, better than I could, where it looks died !
People there was musicians, teachers, "therapeuthes".

Can you send me off list, if you please Kurt, that you already wrote. My
intuition tell me that you point something of great interest for me.
Also, is it really funny, that you are the one of only two who took a time
to respond to me when I asked for people experienceŠ But, true, we spoke,
not about scientist music but about human artŠ

Thanks Kurt,

Gilles Patrat