Re: ! Triads ? What forŠ it was : orchestral tunings

Le 17/06/03 4:16, « tuning@yahoogroups.com » <tuning@yahoogroups.com> a
écrit :
Digest 2579
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 20:45:06 -0000
> From: "wallyesterpaulrus" <wallyesterpaulrus@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: orchestral tunings
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "francois_laferriere"
> <francois.laferriere@o...> wrote:
>
>> > So getting rid of fixed tuning instrument gives more flexibility for
>> > the realisation of chord much more complex than tryad and eventually
>> > open the way for complex constructions such as the "Tristan chord"
>> > etc.
>
> pardon me, but this seems totally backward to me, francois. the more
> complex harmonies developed out of the standardization of 12-equal,
> it seems to me. i must be missing something in your thinking. so you
> believe that the "Tristan chord" would not be adequately represented
> had a harpsichord been present to plunk out its attack? how do you
> think it should be tuned? 5:6:7:9? 1/7:1/6:1/5:1/4? 10:12:15:17?
> something else? what "much more complex" chords are you referring to?
> can you give any examples?

12ET is like 12 colors with no ³nuances² in between. Peoples who use all
other system (what ever we call it, ³temperament², JIŠ) in the traditional
ethnic ways, usually don¹t use harmony (even it must be exceptions like
usualŠ). They use ³pédale² or ³bourdon², rarely more than 2 sounds together
(³contrepoint² is an other problemŠ).
ET doesn¹t permit harmony. Harmony is a necessity in ET ! Harmony is
possible with many other scales, but just not necessaryŠ

We lost a lot with the ³nuances² in between, we needed something to balance
it and gave interest again in music hearingŠ and we found harmony more and
more sophisticated (the seventh, then ninth, etc. Š) Isn¹t it that François
call : complex constructions such as the "Tristan chord" ?

One question is why we enter in this way in ³old² Europe ? We began with
³organum² and ³gymel², (strates of 2 sounds) and why did we hardly get to 3
sounds (quite difficult with Pythagorean scale). The scales was still rich
(in terms of ³nuances²Š). So, the reason could be ³extra-musicale² !

I found that it could be a kind of religious question. In european medieval
times, the perfection was symbolised by the ³sainte trinité². (³Ternaire²
was the perfect rythmic system and so onŠ). So we get to triad, more easily
with ³mésotonique² and ³tempérament² - few 7th, with much precautions,
³préparations² and ³résolutions² - but no really more far than this untill
ET¹s time.

I am not sure that it is a scientific resolution of the question but I don¹t
really careŠ

All the words in between ³ ² are french (when I am not certain for the
translations). Not always me with the dictionary in handŠ

³salutations²

Gilles Patrat