Kathlene Schlesinger?

I've been dipping into the Greek Aulos for about 20 years, on and
off, and all the modern books about ancient Greek music dismiss it as
based on a misconception. What worries me is that none of the recent
books I've read give evidence from folk, and modern copies of ancient
instruments, which KS does in great detail.
Can anyone shed any light on this situation?

All the best

John S

>

Hello John S.
And all those who dismiss her have never reconstructed any of her instruments according to her
methods which happens to be right on.
there was a lot of dismissal of her work at the time of her being alive more on her "lifestyle"
than anything else.
The one woodwind instrument builder i know uses her all the time and is always calling me up and
telling me how right on she is.

>
> From: "jsnelsonone" <jsnelsonone@yahoo.co.uk>
> Subject: Kathlene Schlesinger?
>
> I've been dipping into the Greek Aulos for about 20 years, on and
> off, and all the modern books about ancient Greek music dismiss it as
> based on a misconception. What worries me is that none of the recent
> books I've read give evidence from folk, and modern copies of ancient
> instruments, which KS does in great detail.
> Can anyone shed any light on this situation?
>
> All the best
>
> John S
>
>

-- -Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island
http://www.anaphoria.com
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU 88.9 FM WED 8-9PM PST

In a message dated 2003:05:28 02:32:14 AM, jsnelsonone@yahoo.co.uk writes:

>I've been dipping into the Greek Aulos for about 20 years, on and
>off, and all the modern books about ancient Greek music dismiss it as
>based on a misconception.

Not so much a "misconception" as much as just plain ol'
archaeo-musicological theories and re-creations.

>What worries me is that none of the recent
>books I've read give evidence from folk, and modern copies of ancient
>instruments

Unfortunately some of those modern re-creations have such anachronisms as
metal strings. So take all theories and re-creations with serious
chunk-a-salt. Short of a time-machine or de-frosted Greek musician from Hellenic times,
we will never know for sure...

> which KS does in great detail.

IIRC she tries to prove that some of the modes had intervals of the 13th
harmonic. That was somewhat controversial in its own right when KS first
proposed her theories based on her re-creations, but some say today say that the
13th partial in Arabic music - esp'ly Turkish - is direct evidence of this
continued legacy.
Also more recent acoustic science seems to validate a lot of her
theoritical ideas and re-creations based her own experiments and theories.

> Can anyone shed any light on this situation?

Not much "light" as history is always a lil murky... even recent history.

---
Hanuman Zhang, the "Yves Klein Bleu Aardvark"

What strange risk of hearing can bring sound to music - a hearing whose
obligation awakens a sensibility so new that it is forever a unique, new-born,
anti-death surprise, created now and now and now. .. a hearing whose moment in
time is always daybreak. - Lucia Dlugoszewski

The gods aren't cool enough to have invented dissonance

NADA BRAHMA - Sanskrit, "sound [is the] Godhead"
LILA - Sanskrit, "divine play/sport/whimsy" - "the universe is what happens
when God wants to play" - "joyous exercise of spontaneity involved in the art
of creation"

>
>
> Message: 22
> Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 21:21:10 EDT
> From: czhang23@aol.com
> Subject: Re: Kathlene Schlesinger?
>
> In a message dated 2003:05:28 02:32:14 AM, jsnelsonone@yahoo.co.uk writes:
>
> >I've been dipping into the Greek Aulos for about 20 years, on and
> >off, and all the modern books about ancient Greek music dismiss it as
> >based on a misconception.
>
> Not so much a "misconception" as much as just plain ol'
> archaeo-musicological theories and re-creations.

the proof is in the puddin as they say. She had original instruments in her poscession. Partch i believe saw these.
Jim french has reconstructed some of these getting the exact results she does. Who dwho dismisses her ever bothered to actually build one of her very detailed discriptions.

>
>
> >What worries me is that none of the recent
> >books I've read give evidence from folk, and modern copies of ancient
> >instruments
>
> Unfortunately some of those modern re-creations have such anachronisms as
> metal strings. So take all theories and re-creations with serious
> chunk-a-salt. Short of a time-machine or de-frosted Greek musician from Hellenic times,
> we will never know for sure...
>
> > which KS does in great detail.
>
> IIRC she tries to prove that some of the modes had intervals of the 13th
> harmonic. That was somewhat controversial in its own right when KS first
> proposed her theories based on her re-creations, but some say today say that the
> 13th partial in Arabic music - esp'ly Turkish - is direct evidence of this
> continued legacy.
> Also more recent acoustic science seems to validate a lot of her
> theoritical ideas and re-creations based her own experiments and theories.

the instruments are the proof. but she goes quite a bit higher into the 20's . Somehow it has been missed that if you look at one of her first diagrams you have the common tone modulations of various subharmonic series. Which every 1st
grade tuning person should know contains the diamond or the lambdoma. Her weakness possibly is placing it more far reaching than it is. On the other hand Erv Wilson has a large collection of flutes from around the world (he even gave
Partch the one used in delusion) and often has played me these subharmonic scales and illustrated how they could have been assimulated in to the pythagorean chain in Indian music (for example).

>

-- -Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island
http://www.anaphoria.com
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU 88.9 FM WED 8-9PM PST