.tun into .scl format

Hi
Is it possible to load .tun file into Scala and then save it in .scl
format ?

...or vice versa.
I can't find anything about .tun format in Scala help file

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "unfamiliarwind" <unfamiliarwind@y...>
wrote:
> Hi
> Is it possible to load .tun file into Scala and then save it
in .scl
> format ?

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "unfamiliarwind" <unfamiliarwind@y...>
wrote:

> Hi
> Is it possible to load .tun file into Scala and then save it in .scl
> format ?

Here's another question I've wondered about--is it possible to extract
a scale from the tuning used by a midi file?

Someone asked:
>Is it possible to load .tun file into Scala and then save it in .scl
>format ?

No, this kind of conversion is best done by hand in my opinion, if
you would want to do that. The file formats serve a different purpose.

Manuel

>...or vice versa.
>I can't find anything about .tun format in Scala help file

The other direction is possible. It's also known as the VAZ
Plus format. Do this:

SET SYNTH 112
SEND/FILE myscale.tun

Manuel

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Manuel Op de Coul"
<manuel.op.de.coul@e...> wrote:
> Someone asked:
> >Is it possible to load .tun file into Scala and then save it in .scl
> >format ?
>
> No, this kind of conversion is best done by hand in my opinion, if
> you would want to do that. The file formats serve a different purpose.

What about the extraction of a scale from a midi file?

Gene wrote:
>What about the extraction of a scale from a midi file?

That isn't implemented. Don't know whether it would be
very useful. The program wouldn't know what is 1/1.
Like Joe said, you could use mf2t.exe. If it's a Scala
midi file, the pitch bends are at the end.

Manuel

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Manuel Op de Coul"
<manuel.op.de.coul@e...> wrote:

> Gene wrote:
> >What about the extraction of a scale from a midi file?
>
> That isn't implemented. Don't know whether it would be
> very useful. The program wouldn't know what is 1/1.
> Like Joe said, you could use mf2t.exe. If it's a Scala
> midi file, the pitch bends are at the end.

Even without pitch bends, if you are retuning you want to know what
notes were used. I think this would be very useful, and apparently Joe
could have used it also, so I wish you'd consider it. You can make the
1/1 whatever is closest to 261.62557 cents.

>Even without pitch bends, if you are retuning you want to know what
>notes were used. I think this would be very useful, and apparently Joe
>could have used it also, so I wish you'd consider it.

What notes are used is ambiguous in midi files. The only way to
know which enharmonic notes could be meant are the key signature
statements.
And often people don't bother to put them in. And it is restricted
to normal major and minor tonality. The key signatures can be easily
read with mf2t.exe. So I don't know if you had other things in mind?

Manuel

Manuel, Gene:

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Manuel Op de Coul" <manuel.op.de.coul@e...> wrote:
>So I don't know if you had other things in mind?

Not to mention - just how many midi files does anyone think are out there that are actually micro-tuned? I can't imagine putting in a feature that is both ambiguous and probably only useful on a miniscule number of items.

Cheers,
Jon

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Manuel Op de Coul"
<manuel.op.de.coul@e...> wrote:

> What notes are used is ambiguous in midi files. The only way to
> know which enharmonic notes could be meant are the key signature
> statements.

Why do I need to know which enharmonic note is notated? The collection
of all notes being used will probably give me better information than
that. What I'd like is the set of notes, in cents, reduced to the
period, and the size of the period; but for most purposes we could
forget the period by assuming it is an octave, and that would be much
easier to program. These can be extracted by changing the midi to a
Csound score, but that's with a considerable degree of trouble,
involving editing the Csould file into something Maple can read, and
then computing with Maple.

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Jon Szanto" <JSZANTO@A...> wrote:
> Manuel, Gene:
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Manuel Op de Coul"
<manuel.op.de.coul@e...> wrote:
> >So I don't know if you had other things in mind?
>
> Not to mention - just how many midi files does anyone think are out
there that are actually micro-tuned? I can't imagine putting in a
feature that is both ambiguous and probably only useful on a miniscule
number of items.

One very nice use of such a feature would be in retuning files that
are in 12-equal. It is *not* something which would only be useful on a
miniscule number of items, and in any case quite a few midi files are
in some form of meantone.

Gene,

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Gene Ward Smith" <gwsmith@s...> wrote:
> One very nice use of such a feature would be in retuning files that
> are in 12-equal.

You said a function to extract the scale from a midi file. If you have files that "are in 12-equal", then there is no scale to extract!

> It is *not* something which would only be useful on a
> miniscule number of items

It is if you are talking about files that exist that contain some form of tuning data to move it away from the simple numerical representation of a midi note number.

> and in any case quite a few midi files are in some form of meantone.

I have doubts about that.

Just *what* information do you believe is in a midi file that would allow you to extract a scale? Pitch bend? MTS? Sysex?

Cheers,
Jon

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Jon Szanto" <JSZANTO@A...> wrote:
> Gene,
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Gene Ward Smith" <gwsmith@s...> wrote:
> > One very nice use of such a feature would be in retuning files that
> > are in 12-equal.
>
> You said a function to extract the scale from a midi file. If you
have files that "are in 12-equal", then there is no scale to extract!

Of course there is--the set of note-classes actually used.

> Just *what* information do you believe is in a midi file that would
allow you to extract a scale? Pitch bend? MTS? Sysex?

Pitch bend.

Gene wrote:
>Of course there is--the set of note-classes actually used.

>> Just *what* information do you believe is in a midi file that would
>>allow you to extract a scale? Pitch bend? MTS? Sysex?

>Pitch bend.

Given the inexact nature, ambiguous 1/1, rare midi files etc., it would
be better to do this with a separate utility program. It might also
be problematic to distinguish between "tuning" pitch bends and
real pitch bends. Maybe there are volunteers who'd like to write it,
I have more things on the to-do list.

Manuel