Werckmeister - Kellner

Hi

Just a comparison of the different intervalls as given in cent for
Werckmeister III (by Johnny Reinhard) and
Kellner's "Bach"-temperament (by Paul Erlich)

Remember that it has been claimed that a exact performance to the cent is possible for an ensemble (modern ensemble, partly mixed with historical models etc. - all discussed at length).

I give margin of +/-1 cent so that only differences of 2 cent or larger are shown.

It as been claimed recently that the two temperaments are only marginally different.
But watch the difference yourself and remember that from the 188th century perspective both are irrelevant for ensemble intonation practice - so this of course just for the fun of it and its "modern" performers.

Best regards

Ibo

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<wallyesterpaulrus@y...> wrote:
--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Afmmjr@a... wrote:

W III
96: G#-A
102: C#-D, D-Eb.
108: E-F, F#-G, A-Bb, B-C.

Kellner
100: D-Eb, G#-A
104: C#-D, A-Bb

Note the difference of A-Bb -
that is btw the opening melodic interval in Brandenburg Concerto II, mov. 2 (often referred to recently as highly important!).

W III
192: C-D, G-A.
198: D-E
204: A-B,

Kellner
195: C-D, D-E, G-A
199: A-B

W III
300: F#-A, B-D.
306: D-F, E-G.
312: A-C.

Kellner
303: D-F, F#-A, B-D
308: E-G, A-C

W III
390: F-A.
396: D-F#, G-B, Bb-D.
402: A-C#

Kellner:
394: D-F#, F-A, G-B
398: A-C#, Bb-D

In both temperaments thirds in the "good" keys differ way more than the claimed margin!

W III
594: Eb-A
600: D-G#, G#-D.
606: A-Eb

Kellner
598: D-G#, Eb-A
602: G#-D, A-Eb

W III
696: B-F#.
702: A-E,

Kellner
697: A-E, B-F#

[ ... snip: rest of intervals are complementar-intervals]

In a message dated 4/21/03 7:08:31 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
ibo.ortgies@musik.gu.se writes:

> It as been claimed recently that the two temperaments are only
> marginally different.

I found a copy of Herbert's correspondence regarding the similarity of the 2
temperaments: Werckmeister III and Bach-Kellner. I will send it under
separate copy.

> But watch the difference yourself and remember that from the
> 188th century perspective both are irrelevant for ensemble
> intonation practice - so this of course just for the fun of it
> and its "modern" performers.
>
> Best regards
>
> Ibo

Remember, it is only from the 188th Century perspective that these scales
"are irrelevant for ensemble intonation practice." Ibo, so you predict the
future as well as the past? ;-)

With fun, Johnny Reinhard