intervals database

Hi, I'm a begginer on tuning subjects and I'm studying
the harmonic series, and I just found out this
curiosity;

5/3 = 1,6666666666667 and 7/6 = 1,6666666666667

so can that mean we have the same distancy in the
harmonic series from a G to E and the next G to Bb????

I couldn't figure this out... anyway;

I got a little knowladge on database, and I'm thinking
about making a big database of intervals, something
like this;

3 2 1,5 702 perfect fifth
4 3 1,333333 398 perfect fourth
etc...

But I'm thinking someone has already done this, right?
Is there anything like this available for download on
the net?

Anyway, my idea is to build an ASP page, or a kind of
system available for download, where you can enter one
parameter and get the result of the other, specially
entering a value in cents and getting the proportion
values, has this been done yet, if not, why?

Thanks everyone...
Cheers
Alex

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more
http://tax.yahoo.com

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Eric Viking <decuritiba@y...> wrote:

> I got a little knowladge on database, and I'm thinking
> about making a big database of intervals, something
> like this;
>
> 3 2 1,5 702 perfect fifth
> 4 3 1,333333 398 perfect fourth
> etc...
>
> But I'm thinking someone has already done this, right?
> Is there anything like this available for download on
> the net?

here are two examples:

http://home.earthlink.net/~kgann/Octave.html

http://www.xs4all.nl/~huygensf/doc/intervals.html

note that the names don't always agree . . .

here's a database on small 5-limit JI intervals (first 5 columns) and
the result of tempering them out (last 5 columns):

/tuning/database?
method=reportRows&tbl=10&sortBy=4

this is intended to replace the big table at:

http://sonic-arts.org/dict/eqtemp.htm

there are plenty of applets out there for giving ratio-
approximations, etc. . . . i know dave keenan has made a few . . .

http://www.uq.net.au/~zzdkeena/Music/CentsToRatios.xls

> Anyway, my idea is to build an ASP page, or a kind of
> system available for download, where you can enter one
> parameter and get the result of the other, specially
> entering a value in cents and getting the proportion
> values, has this been done yet, if not, why?

Scala is an application that can do this sort of stuff
all day. It's available for Windows and Linux...

http://www.xs4all.nl/~huygensf/scala/

If you're just looking for a handy chart, try...

http://lumma.org/stuff/19-limit_dyads_by_limit.txt

http://lumma.org/stuff/19-limit_dyads_by_size.txt

-Carl

Wally,

The biggest compilation of musical intervals that I've
seen is a little yellow book in french that Alain
Danielou wrote when he lived in India in the 1950's or
1960's. The title includes the words 'des intervalles
musicaux'. I have a copy of it at home. If you want
to know the exact title, let me know and I'll dig it
out. It is, of course, out of print, and is also, of
course, not in the form of an electronic database.

--Mark Rankin

--- wallyesterpaulrus <wallyesterpaulrus@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Eric Viking
> <decuritiba@y...> wrote:
>
> > I got a little knowladge on database, and I'm
> thinking
> > about making a big database of intervals,
> something
> > like this;
> >
> > 3 2 1,5 702 perfect fifth
> > 4 3 1,333333 398 perfect fourth
> > etc...
> >
> > But I'm thinking someone has already done this,
> right?
> > Is there anything like this available for download
> on
> > the net?
>
> here are two examples:
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~kgann/Octave.html
>
> http://www.xs4all.nl/~huygensf/doc/intervals.html
>
> note that the names don't always agree . . .
>
> here's a database on small 5-limit JI intervals
> (first 5 columns) and
> the result of tempering them out (last 5 columns):
>
> /tuning/database?
> method=reportRows&tbl=10&sortBy=4
>
> this is intended to replace the big table at:
>
> http://sonic-arts.org/dict/eqtemp.htm
>
> there are plenty of applets out there for giving
> ratio-
> approximations, etc. . . . i know dave keenan has
> made a few . . .
>
>
http://www.uq.net.au/~zzdkeena/Music/CentsToRatios.xls
>
>

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more
http://tax.yahoo.com

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Mark Rankin <markrankin95511@y...>
wrote:
> Wally,
>
> The biggest compilation of musical intervals that I've
> seen is a little yellow book in french that Alain
> Danielou wrote when he lived in India in the 1950's or
> 1960's. The title includes the words 'des intervalles
> musicaux'. I have a copy of it at home. If you want
> to know the exact title, let me know and I'll dig it
> out. It is, of course, out of print, and is also, of
> course, not in the form of an electronic database.
>
> --Mark Rankin

thanks, i'm familiar with danielou's main book on musical intervals,
and i don't think that list in that book, at least, is as big as what
you'd find in either helmholtz's _on the sensations of tone_ or
partch's _genesis of a music_. also, danielou's information is not
very reliable -- this was evident to me while reading his book, but
is confirmed by an acquaintance of mine, an outstanding performer of
hindustani music, who writes:

http://www.rootsworld.com/rw/feature/india4.html

-paul

Wally,

I have remembered the title of Alain Danielou's book
on musical intervals. It is called 'Table Comparatif
des Intervalles Musicaux'. Unlike Partch's and
Helmholtz's short lists, Danielou's work is a 100 page
book of musical intervals. It has 3-limit, 5-limit,
7-limit, and possibly 11-limit ratios.
This information is not in Danielou's main book on
Indian Music, which was called North Indian Music, or
The Ragas of North Indian Music, or some such title
(I have it at home, along with Helmholtz). There is a
section of Danielou's Book on north indian ragas which
contains speculative intervals that are of his own
conception, but there is nothing unreliable about his
Table Comparatif des Intervalles Musicaux. It is
simply a massive table of musical intervals, nothing
more. It has ten times as many intervals as Partch's
and Helmholtz's lists combined, including all 17
fifths of the Arabic system.

--Mark Rankin

--- wallyesterpaulrus <wallyesterpaulrus@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Mark Rankin
> <markrankin95511@y...>
> wrote:
> > Wally,
> >
> > The biggest compilation of musical intervals that
> I've
> > seen is a little yellow book in french that Alain
> > Danielou wrote when he lived in India in the
> 1950's or
> > 1960's. The title includes the words 'des
> intervalles
> > musicaux'. I have a copy of it at home. If you
> want
> > to know the exact title, let me know and I'll dig
> it
> > out. It is, of course, out of print, and is also,
> of
> > course, not in the form of an electronic database.
>
> >
> > --Mark Rankin
>
> thanks, i'm familiar with danielou's main book on
> musical intervals,
> and i don't think that list in that book, at least,
> is as big as what
> you'd find in either helmholtz's _on the sensations
> of tone_ or
> partch's _genesis of a music_. also, danielou's
> information is not
> very reliable -- this was evident to me while
> reading his book, but
> is confirmed by an acquaintance of mine, an
> outstanding performer of
> hindustani music, who writes:
>
> http://www.rootsworld.com/rw/feature/india4.html
>
> -paul
>
>

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more
http://tax.yahoo.com

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Mark Rankin <markrankin95511@y...>
> This information is not in Danielou's main book on
> Indian Music, which was called North Indian Music, or
> The Ragas of North Indian Music, or some such title

the book i was thinking of was the 1943 title "The Study of Musical
Scales."

anyway, it should be easy enough to write a program to compile all
the intervals in all the scala scales and fill up at least a 100-page
book (i mean electronically, please don't kill any trees for this
feat), if anyone desires . . .

Wally, thanks for the update. I'm not familiar with
the 1943 book.

--Mark Rankin

--- wallyesterpaulrus <wallyesterpaulrus@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Mark Rankin
> <markrankin95511@y...>
> > This information is not in Danielou's main book on
> > Indian Music, which was called North Indian Music,
> or
> > The Ragas of North Indian Music, or some such
> title
>
> the book i was thinking of was the 1943 title "The
> Study of Musical
> Scales."
>
> anyway, it should be easy enough to write a program
> to compile all
> the intervals in all the scala scales and fill up at
> least a 100-page
> book (i mean electronically, please don't kill any
> trees for this
> feat), if anyone desires . . .
>
>

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more
http://tax.yahoo.com

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "wallyesterpaulrus"
<wallyesterpaulrus@y...> wrote:

> anyway, it should be easy enough to write a program to compile all
> the intervals in all the scala scales and fill up at least a 100-page
> book (i mean electronically, please don't kill any trees for this
> feat), if anyone desires . . .

For that matter, it would be easy to take a row of the Farey sequence,
and filter out everything not p-limit for some p. My first question
when this thread arose is "what is mean by a musical interval"? If we
had a definition, we would hardly require hundreds of pages.

> <wallyesterpaulrus@y...> wrote:
>
> > anyway, it should be easy enough to write a program to compile
all
> > the intervals in all the scala scales and fill up at least a 100-
page
> > book (i mean electronically, please don't kill any trees for this
> > feat), if anyone desires . . .

Sure, I hope it's easy, and I see there's no such thing, so I guess
it's something to be done. I knew there should be hundred pages books
around with tables of intervals, but it'd be tremendously hard for me
to get it here in Brazil. And I believe an eletronic database could
be useful.

But I don't know how to do what you mentioned with Scala.

> For that matter, it would be easy to take a row of the Farey
sequence,
> and filter out everything not p-limit for some p. My first question
> when this thread arose is "what is mean by a musical interval"? If
we
> had a definition, we would hardly require hundreds of pages.

Hmmm, I don't know what you're talking about either, damn, it's so
boring being a begginer, anyway...

I was first thinking of a table of conversions where you could get
the ratio from a cents value, and for that I thought I'd need a
Database, now, of course that as a begginer I can't realize how
useful or not this could be, and I see that you expert people don't
worry about it, but as for myself, well, I'm experimenting a lot, and
it could be useful for me to look for existing names of intervals
that I'm getting on my own, so I wish I had a table with every
interval that's been used in a database... and people could browse
this database on the web.

I'm already trying to develop something that I'll post on the web
soon, I guess I'll be clearer then...

cheers
Alex

Alex Porres wrote:
>But I don't know how to do what you mentioned with Scala.

You can load the interval list as a scale and then see the
names:

LOAD intnam.par
SHOW

Collecting all intervals from the scale archive is theoretically
possible with LOAD/ALL and MERGE/ALL although I never tried it.
You'd need to set it up to allow very many and very large scales.

Manuel