Rothenberg and Turkish music

Can: It is, of course, possible that Rothenberg' model would not apply
to as complex and fluid a tonal field as that of Turkish music. Are the
inflected scales still felt to be instantiations of some underlying
tonal gestalt (some series of wide or narrow intervals, sets of
principal and ornamental tones) or are they perceived as temporary
modulations to related scales? If the tones are all felt to be in one
underlying scale, then perhaps something like the Range or Blur
functions might be applicable.

My recollection of R's book suggested that some tones are relative fixed
and others quite flexible in their intonation (like the Greek fixed and
moveable tones of the tetrachordal structure). The fourth and fifth
above the tonic would be relative fixed (except in modulations to scales
related by the fourth or fifth -- disjunct to conjunct modulations), but
the interior notes of the tetrachords might vary considerably (mixtures
as well as modulations are known in Greek theory).

It is also possible that the union of all the inflections covers the
entire tonal space and that some note functions may even overlap. In
these cases one might want a different approach, though I think
Rothenberg's theory would still be illuminating as some intervals might
be perceived as chromaticism or modulations to a different scale or mode
(or wrong notes <g>).

--John

At 19:07 8/14/99 -0800, you wrote:
>From: John Chalmers <jhchalmers@UCSD.Edu>
>
>Can: It is, of course, possible that Rothenberg' model would not apply
>to as complex and fluid a tonal field as that of Turkish music. Are the
>inflected scales still felt to be instantiations of some underlying
>tonal gestalt (some series of wide or narrow intervals, sets of
>principal and ornamental tones) or are they perceived as temporary
>modulations to related scales? If the tones are all felt to be in one
>underlying scale, then perhaps something like the Range or Blur
>functions might be applicable.
*****************************************************************

John: This is one of the fundamental questions in my research now,
and I don't have an answer yet. What I see in my histograms are
notes clustered around certain 'anchor' sounds. The speculation in
my previous post was based primarily on my observations when I was
permitted to sit in masters classes in Turkey. I will know the answer
to these very pertinent questions you have raised in due time. Thank
for your interest in such musical structures.
*****************************************************************

>My recollection of R's book suggested that some tones are relative fixed
>and others quite flexible in their intonation (like the Greek fixed and
>moveable tones of the tetrachordal structure). The fourth and fifth
>above the tonic would be relative fixed (except in modulations to scales
>related by the fourth or fifth -- disjunct to conjunct modulations), but
>the interior notes of the tetrachords might vary considerably (mixtures
>as well as modulations are known in Greek theory).
*****************************************************************

This model looks plausible! It is consistent with my observations.
*****************************************************************

>It is also possible that the union of all the inflections covers the
>entire tonal space and that some note functions may even overlap. In
>these cases one might want a different approach, though I think
>Rothenberg's theory would still be illuminating as some intervals might
>be perceived as chromaticism or modulations to a different scale or mode
>(or wrong notes <g>).
>
>--John
*****************************************************************

This is not happening in the improvisations I have analyzed so far
from two very well known master musicians. There are vast intervals
between clusters with no musical 'action'. I will definitely look at
Rothenberg's theory for clues. Thanks again for your suggestions.

Best regards,

Dr. Can Akkoc
Alabama School of Mathematics and Science
1255 Dauphin Street
Mobile, AL 36604
USA

Phone: (334) 441-2126
Fax: (334) 441-3290
Web: http://199.20.31.100/GIFT/