Introducing non-12-EDO concept to children

Hello, how about someone in the Tuning Group asking that the concept
of microtones be introduced in the project? --

http://www.toysymphony.net/

Regards,
Haresh.

hi Haresh,

> From: <hareshbakshi@hotmail.com>
> To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2003 5:35 AM
> Subject: [tuning] Introducing non-12-EDO concept to children
>
>
> Hello, how about someone in the Tuning Group asking that the concept
> of microtones be introduced in the project? --
>
> http://www.toysymphony.net/

i thought you might be interested in learning more
about the wonderful microtonal instrument i know
about which was designed primarily for children:
my friend Jonathan Glasier's "pentaphone", on
permanent exhibit at the Exploratorium in San Francisco.

http://www.exploratorium.edu/xref/exhibits/pentaphone.html

http://www.exploratorium.edu/exhibit_services/consulting/jglasier.html

http://www.windworld.com/emi/back_issues/bi1-2.htm

the instrument is basically 5 marimbas, each marimba
forming one side of the pentagonal instrument, each
one having slats made of a different material, and
all tuned to just-intonation pentatonic scales.

(... talk about "5-limit"! ...)

the idea is that kids can come up to the pentaphone,
pick up mallets, and begin playing on any of the
5 sides, and no matter how many of them are playing
at any one time and no matter what they play, it will
sound pleasing to the players because it's pretty
much always consonant!

-monz

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "monz" <monz@a...> wrote:

>
> the instrument is basically 5 marimbas, each marimba
> forming one side of the pentagonal instrument, each
> one having slats made of a different material, and
> all tuned to just-intonation pentatonic scales.
>
> (... talk about "5-limit"! ...)
>
>
> the idea is that kids can come up to the pentaphone,
> pick up mallets, and begin playing on any of the
> 5 sides, and no matter how many of them are playing
> at any one time and no matter what they play, it will
> sound pleasing to the players because it's pretty
> much always consonant!

except for the 27:20s?

Hi Haresh!
This is one idea of a sort I'd like to try to run with! If there's anyone out there involved in education and/or therapeutic work, I'd be extremely grateful for recommendations on resources and lines of inquiry. (Off-line?)
I've been involved in Waldorf Education, and am presently working on a degree in Music Ed. and a CA teaching credential.
Thanks,
Pete
"Haresh BAKSHI <hareshbakshi@hotmail.com>" <hareshbakshi@hotmail.com> wrote:Hello, how about someone in the Tuning Group asking that the concept
of microtones be introduced in the project? --

http://www.toysymphony.net/

Regards,
Haresh.

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hi paul,

> From: <wallyesterpaulrus@yahoo.com>
> To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2003 12:56 PM
> Subject: [tuning] Re: Introducing non-12-EDO concept to children
>
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "monz" <monz@a...> wrote:
>
> >
> > the instrument is basically 5 marimbas, each marimba
> > forming one side of the pentagonal instrument, each
> > one having slats made of a different material, and
> > all tuned to just-intonation pentatonic scales.
> >
> > (... talk about "5-limit"! ...)
> >
> >
> > the idea is that kids can come up to the pentaphone,
> > pick up mallets, and begin playing on any of the
> > 5 sides, and no matter how many of them are playing
> > at any one time and no matter what they play, it will
> > sound pleasing to the players because it's pretty
> > much always consonant!
>
> except for the 27:20s?

leave it to you to call me on that!

at first i had written simply "always consonant", but
after making an interval matrix of the "typical" 5-limit
JI pentatonic scale ( 1/1 - 9/8 - 5/4 - 3/2 - 5/3 ),
i saw both the 27:20 and 40:27 in there, not to mention
the 10:9, 9:8, 16:9, and 9:5, and figured i should add
the "pretty much".

but i'm not entirely sure that Jonathan used that tuning,
or indeed that all five sides have the *same* tuning.
it's entirely possible that he used a Pythagorean pentatonic.
i'll have to ask.

but in any case, his guiding principle was that by
using JI ratios and limiting the scale to pentatonic,
nothing anyone plays would sound *really* harshly
dissonant.

anyway, i thought the design of the pentaphone was a
fantastic idea, and he actually built it and installed
it in the museum for kids to play around with, which
is a lot more than most of us theory-oriented microtonalists
have done.

(of course, i'm not knocking our work either. but
most kids are much more likely to enter the world of
microtonality by banging on a marimba than by reading
something.)

given the ubiquity of 12edo on all of our cheap electronic
keyboards and almost all guitars, with which i have to
contend every day in my job as a music teacher (and many
of my students are very young), i mark the pentaphone as
a great breakthru in introducing children to non-12edo.

-monz

Hi Monz,

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "monz" <monz@a...> wrote:
>>>>> but in any case, his guiding principle was that by
> using JI ratios and limiting the scale to pentatonic,
> nothing anyone plays would sound *really* harshly
> dissonant >>>>

Also,
(1) the pentatonic scales are known for their robust stability
from ancient times;
(2) they sound "positive and cheerful" like, playing all black keys,
i. C# as Sa: notes of raga Durga: C# D# F# G# A#
ii. D# as Sa: notes of raga Dhani: D# F# G# A# C#
iii. F# as Sa: notes of raga Bhupali: F# G# A# C# D#
iv. G# as Sa: notes of raga Sarang: G# A# C# D# F#
v. A# as Sa: notes of raga Malkaus: A# C# D# F# G#.
(3) Pentatonic raga-s are characterized by absence of leading notes.
This prevents too much "aesthetic tension" from building up on
staying on and around the leading note.

I would appreciate your input on this.

Regards,
Haresh.

> >
> > --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "monz" <monz@a...> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > the instrument is basically 5 marimbas, each marimba
> > > forming one side of the pentagonal instrument, each
> > > one having slats made of a different material, and
> > > all tuned to just-intonation pentatonic scales.
> > >
> > > (... talk about "5-limit"! ...)
> > >
> > >
> > > the idea is that kids can come up to the pentaphone,
> > > pick up mallets, and begin playing on any of the
> > > 5 sides, and no matter how many of them are playing
> > > at any one time and no matter what they play, it will
> > > sound pleasing to the players because it's pretty
> > > much always consonant!
> >
> > except for the 27:20s?
>
>
>
> leave it to you to call me on that!
>
> at first i had written simply "always consonant", but
> after making an interval matrix of the "typical" 5-limit
> JI pentatonic scale ( 1/1 - 9/8 - 5/4 - 3/2 - 5/3 ),
> i saw both the 27:20 and 40:27 in there, not to mention
> the 10:9, 9:8, 16:9, and 9:5, and figured i should add
> the "pretty much".
>
> but i'm not entirely sure that Jonathan used that tuning,
> or indeed that all five sides have the *same* tuning.
> it's entirely possible that he used a Pythagorean pentatonic.
> i'll have to ask.
>
> but in any case, his guiding principle was that by
> using JI ratios and limiting the scale to pentatonic,
> nothing anyone plays would sound *really* harshly
> dissonant.
>
>
> anyway, i thought the design of the pentaphone was a
> fantastic idea, and he actually built it and installed
> it in the museum for kids to play around with, which
> is a lot more than most of us theory-oriented microtonalists
> have done.
>
> (of course, i'm not knocking our work either. but
> most kids are much more likely to enter the world of
> microtonality by banging on a marimba than by reading
> something.)
>
> given the ubiquity of 12edo on all of our cheap electronic
> keyboards and almost all guitars, with which i have to
> contend every day in my job as a music teacher (and many
> of my students are very young), i mark the pentaphone as
> a great breakthru in introducing children to non-12edo.
>
>
>
> -monz