A question about Lou Harrison's Piano Concerto in Kirnberger.

Kyle's article on Lou Harrison mentions the Piano Concerto in
Kirnberger. I don't have access to the score (living in the dark
recesses of Mordor) but presumablythe orchestra play in Kirnberger too.
Does anyone know how tuning instructions are given to the players? In
otherwords are they explicit on the score?

I assume also that other works, eg, for Gamelan and orchestra have
tuning instructions for orchestral musicians. Does anyone know how these
are handled?

Many thanks in anticipation.
a.m.

>

Either these are for his orchestra or for any gamelan orchestra which allows each performance to be
in a different tining albeit of the same family. ex. pelog and slendro.
with the standard ochestra when he has used different tunings in passages he "cues' the other
instruments with tuned sting instruments., zithers psaltries etc. he doesn't push it too far with
it al all either

>
> From: Alison Monteith <alison.monteith3@which.net>
>
>
> I assume also that other works, eg, for Gamelan and orchestra have
> tuning instructions for orchestral musicians. Does anyone know how these
> are handled?
>
> Many thanks in anticipation.
> a.m.
>
>

-- -Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island
http://www.anaphoria.com
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU 88.9 FM WED 8-9PM PST

Hi Alison,

>Kyle's article on Lou Harrison mentions the
>Piano Concerto in
>Kirnberger. I don't have access to the score
>(living in the dark
>recesses of Mordor) but presumablythe
>orchestra play in Kirnberger too.
>Does anyone know how tuning instructions are
>given to the players? In
>otherwords are they explicit on the score?

Do you really want to know, or is this simply an opportunity to brag about you living in the dark recesses of Mordor? :^)

In my (illegally Xeroxed, alas) copy of the Piano Concerto score, the piano tuning is given in a clearly detailed chart, but nothing is said about the orchestra tuning. I guess early music groups have the same problem when they perform Mozart concerti.

Kyle

Kyle Gann wrote:

> Hi Alison,

> In my (illegally Xeroxed, alas) copy of the Piano Concerto score, the
> piano tuning is given in a clearly detailed chart, but nothing is
> said about the orchestra tuning. I guess early music groups have the
> same problem when they perform Mozart concerti.
>
> Kyle
>

Pity about that - I'd have thought that you'd get more performances by making tuning details clear
to performers. Perhaps that's where intermediaries are needed.

Regards
a.m.

Kraig Grady wrote:

>
>
> Either these are for his orchestra or for any gamelan orchestra which allows each performance to be
> in a different tining albeit of the same family. ex. pelog and slendro.
> with the standard ochestra when he has used different tunings in passages he "cues' the other
> instruments with tuned sting instruments., zithers psaltries etc. he doesn't push it too far with
> it al all either

Thanks Kraig. I think though that instructions in the score might
encourage more performances,
particularly outside of the USA.

Regards
a.m.

>

From my conversations with Lou , he did not visualize others tuning to his system or choices of Pelog and Slendro. He saw no reason to go "Harry's route" of writing instruments for his sole ensemble when he realized that there were already a myriad of microtonal ensembles everywhere. these being gamelan enesembles. So he wrote much music
that could be done on ANY Pelog or ANY Slendro. His works are actually performed quite a bit. At one point i heard he was the most performed living american composer in the world.
he had also remarked that he perferred writing for gamelan ensembles because it actually gave him more parts to compose as he found he would always run out of instruments when he wrote for the big western warhorse. The reason he titled his fourth sym his last symphony is cause he did not want to have to write for it again. the piece that
i mentioned before , the Concerto for Piano with Javanese Gamelan, he wrote immediately after the one he wrote for Keith Jarrett as his way of releasing as he said "the real concerto he wanted to write". His use of Kirnberger was his compromise instrument and all the 12 ET music was written on a piano tuned to this and he just "let them
perform it in 12 ET" although this is what he heard. It is interesting to note that Stravinsky's pino seemed totally out of tune to Robert Craft who attempted to have it fixed but was sternly stooped by igor in doing so.

>
> Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 10:02:14 +0000
> From: Alison Monteith <alison.monteith3@which.net>
>
> Thanks Kraig. I think though that instructions in the score might
> encourage more performances,
> particularly outside of the USA.
>
> Regards
> a.m.
>

-- -Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island
http://www.anaphoria.com
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU 88.9 FM WED 8-9PM PST

Hi Alison,

Lou's Piano Concerto only used strings and trombones and harps (as I recall),
so that tuning difficulties would be kept to a minimum. He didn't have
confidence in woodwinds playing microtones, unfortunately for me.

At the Carnegie Hall premiere, Keith Jarrett played beautifully. Jarrett
later recorded the piece in Japan. I even have an improvisation made by
Jarrett that Lou gave to me. But alas, Keith Jarrett in his autobiography
(published only in Japanese and Italian) is rather negative about the tuning.
(I have an English version since I was the copy editor for Timothy Hill who
edited the book).

Incidentally, when I asked Lou about (notice I use his first name, but
Keith's last) about his saying that "just intonation is the best intonation"
he backed off of it. It seems that he could live with 1/1 quoting him, but
he did love Kirnberger tuning, and he certainly loved all the diverse gamelan
tunings.

Hope this helps, Johnny Reinhard

Kraig Grady wrote:

>
>
> From my conversations with Lou , he did not visualize others tuning to
> his system or choices of Pelog and Slendro. He saw no reason to go
> "Harry's route" of writing instruments for his sole ensemble when he
> realized that there were already a myriad of microtonal ensembles
> everywhere. these being gamelan enesembles. So he wrote much music
> that could be done on ANY Pelog or ANY Slendro. His works are actually
> performed quite a bit. At one point i heard he was the most performed
> living american composer in the world.
> he had also remarked that he perferred writing for gamelan
> ensembles because it actually gave him more parts to compose as he
> found he would always run out of instruments when he wrote for the big
> western warhorse. The reason he titled his fourth sym his last
> symphony is cause he did not want to have to write for it again. the
> piece that
> i mentioned before , the Concerto for Piano with Javanese Gamelan, he
> wrote immediately after the one he wrote for Keith Jarrett as his way
> of releasing as he said "the real concerto he wanted to write". His
> use of Kirnberger was his compromise instrument and all the 12 ET
> music was written on a piano tuned to this and he just "let them
> perform it in 12 ET" although this is what he heard. It is interesting
> to note that Stravinsky's pino seemed totally out of tune to Robert
> Craft who attempted to have it fixed but was sternly stooped by igor
> in doing so.
>

Johnny Reinhard wrote

> Hi Alison,
>
> Lou's Piano Concerto only used strings and trombones and harps (as I
> recall),
> so that tuning difficulties would be kept to a minimum. He didn't
> have
> confidence in woodwinds playing microtones, unfortunately for me.
>
> At the Carnegie Hall premiere, Keith Jarrett played beautifully.
> Jarrett
> later recorded the piece in Japan. I even have an improvisation made
> by
> Jarrett that Lou gave to me. But alas, Keith Jarrett in his
> autobiography
> (published only in Japanese and Italian) is rather negative about the
> tuning.
> (I have an English version since I was the copy editor for Timothy
> Hill who
> edited the book).
>
> Incidentally, when I asked Lou about (notice I use his first name, but
>
> Keith's last) about his saying that "just intonation is the best
> intonation"
> he backed off of it. It seems that he could live with 1/1 quoting
> him, but
> he did love Kirnberger tuning, and he certainly loved all the diverse
> gamelan
> tunings.
>
> Hope this helps, Johnny Reinhard
>

Thank you gentlemen. Your replies have been most helpful.

Kind Regards
a.m.