guitar frets

>

this is really rediculous that this was conceded. bent or curved , it is implied in the very nature
of frets. Also we have the slanted frets done by Bill Westley which predates 1996. They would have
to proved that it is not implied in "function" by this design.
On the other hand it is really stupid to post a message toward Ians so called design. Why give him
anything. Too often a lawyer write a letter and people run scared wheather it is grounded or not.
this is ungrounded. One could argue that this bent design is nothing more than a combination of
your standard fretting and Bills design

>
> Subject: Re: Re: mockingbird music
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <wallyesterpaulrus@yahoo.com>
> To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 2:11 PM
> Subject: [tuning] Re: mockingbird music
>
> > --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, David Beardsley <davidbeardsley@b...>
> > wrote:
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: <daniel_anthony_stearns@y...>
> > >
> > > > I doubt Glenn has done any bent fret work
> > >
> > > read the legal notice here:
> > >
> > > http://www.organicdesign.org/peterson/guitars/
> >
> > i was going to point that out, but i thought it too pedantic -- i was
> > asking about frets that don't go all the way across, not bent frets.
>
> They not bent, they're curved!
>
> * David Beardsley
> * microtonal guitar
> * http://biink.com/db
>
>

-- -Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island
http://www.anaphoria.com
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU 88.9 FM WED 8-9PM PST

----- Original Message -----
From: "Kraig Grady" <kraiggrady@anaphoria.com>

> this is really rediculous that this was conceded. bent or curved , it is
implied in the very nature
> of frets. Also we have the slanted frets done by Bill Westley which
predates 1996. They would have
> to proved that it is not implied in "function" by this design.
> On the other hand it is really stupid to post a message toward Ians so
called design. Why give him
> anything. Too often a lawyer write a letter and people run scared wheather
it is grounded or not.
> this is ungrounded. One could argue that this bent design is nothing more
than a combination of
> your standard fretting and Bills design

<http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=
1&u=/netahtml/srchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=5760322.WKU.&OS=PN/5760322&RS=PN/5
760322>

or go to: http://patft.uspto.gov/netahtml/search-bool.html

and search for 5760322

check out the part where "said curved portion being configured to
alter the musical note of said one of said strings by a second factor,
said second factor being said first factor flattened by up to about
1/12th of a semitone of diatonic musical scale" is discussed.

He's doing it for a different reason then Glenn Peterson's work.

* David Beardsley
* microtonal guitar
* http://biink.com/db

On Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 04:45 , tuning@yahoogroups.com wrote:

> Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 09:04:23 -0800
> From: Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@anaphoria.com>
> Subject: guitar frets
>
> this is really rediculous that this was conceded.

It is not so much ridiculous as it is astonishing. And a bit scary.

> bent or curved , it is implied in the very nature
> of frets.

Indeed. I'm certain there are better analogies, but take for now the instance of a metal pipe.

> Also we have the slanted frets done by Bill Westley which > predates 1996.

I'm also pretty sure that a thorough search would reveal much earlier use of bent/curved/slanted frets. There are certainly people who don't know about the use of partial frets, 'tastini', in early music. Something Margo just pointed out on earlym-l, the early music mailing list. Prior art amigos, we need prior art or some other documentary proof. I've had this in the back of my mind and on my ever longer to-do list ever since Glen took down his pages.

There is some mention here of "wavy" frets :
http://www.windworld.com/emi/tools/fretnote.htm

> Too often a lawyer write a letter and people run scared > wheather it is grounded or not.
> this is ungrounded.

Yes. The answer I think is for those so inclined to investigate whether it is grounded and what in !

Cheers,
- Joel

Two and a half years ago Glen Peterson told Siemen
Terpstra and me about how he had been warned by a
competetor not to create any more of his curved frets.

I have just tuned in to the current discussion today
and haven't got the data on who the culprit is but if
it can be of any help, over ten years ago french
microtonalist Jacques Dudon built what he called a
"Sruti Guitar" fretted in Just intonation. He said
that it sounded so absolutely beautiful that everyone
who heard him play it wanted to buy it from him!
He sent me photos of it. Instead of the straight
frets in a staggered configuration that I use on my
interchangeable fretboards, Jacques used a combination
of serpentine frets that he curved himself, and
straight frets. The fretboard looks similar to what
Glen did six years later.

Who, exactly, is it who is trying to monopolize the
curved fret market?

--Mark Rankin

--- David Beardsley <davidbeardsley@biink.com> wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kraig Grady" <kraiggrady@anaphoria.com>
>
>
> > this is really rediculous that this was conceded.
> bent or curved , it is
> implied in the very nature
> > of frets. Also we have the slanted frets done by
> Bill Westley which
> predates 1996. They would have
> > to proved that it is not implied in "function" by
> this design.
> > On the other hand it is really stupid to post a
> message toward Ians so
> called design. Why give him
> > anything. Too often a lawyer write a letter and
> people run scared wheather
> it is grounded or not.
> > this is ungrounded. One could argue that this bent
> design is nothing more
> than a combination of
> > your standard fretting and Bills design
>
>
<http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=
>
1&u=/netahtml/srchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=5760322.WKU.&OS=PN/5760322&RS=PN/5
> 760322>
>
> or go to:
> http://patft.uspto.gov/netahtml/search-bool.html
>
> and search for 5760322
>
> check out the part where "said curved portion being
> configured to
> alter the musical note of said one of said strings
> by a second factor,
> said second factor being said first factor flattened
> by up to about
> 1/12th of a semitone of diatonic musical scale" is
> discussed.
>
> He's doing it for a different reason then Glenn
> Peterson's work.
>
>
> * David Beardsley
> * microtonal guitar
> * http://biink.com/db
>
>
>
>

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
http://taxes.yahoo.com/

I forwarded your email to Jon Catler.
For more information on who is who, check out the
patent search as I described below.

* David Beardsley
* microtonal guitar
* http://biink.com/db

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Rankin" <markrankin95511@yahoo.com>
To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 4:54 PM
Subject: Re: [tuning] guitar frets

> Two and a half years ago Glen Peterson told Siemen
> Terpstra and me about how he had been warned by a
> competetor not to create any more of his curved frets.
>
> I have just tuned in to the current discussion today
> and haven't got the data on who the culprit is but if
> it can be of any help, over ten years ago french
> microtonalist Jacques Dudon built what he called a
> "Sruti Guitar" fretted in Just intonation. He said
> that it sounded so absolutely beautiful that everyone
> who heard him play it wanted to buy it from him!
> He sent me photos of it. Instead of the straight
> frets in a staggered configuration that I use on my
> interchangeable fretboards, Jacques used a combination
> of serpentine frets that he curved himself, and
> straight frets. The fretboard looks similar to what
> Glen did six years later.
>
> Who, exactly, is it who is trying to monopolize the
> curved fret market?
>
> --Mark Rankin
>
>
>
> --- David Beardsley <davidbeardsley@biink.com> wrote:
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Kraig Grady" <kraiggrady@anaphoria.com>
> >
> >
> > > this is really rediculous that this was conceded.
> > bent or curved , it is
> > implied in the very nature
> > > of frets. Also we have the slanted frets done by
> > Bill Westley which
> > predates 1996. They would have
> > > to proved that it is not implied in "function" by
> > this design.
> > > On the other hand it is really stupid to post a
> > message toward Ians so
> > called design. Why give him
> > > anything. Too often a lawyer write a letter and
> > people run scared wheather
> > it is grounded or not.
> > > this is ungrounded. One could argue that this bent
> > design is nothing more
> > than a combination of
> > > your standard fretting and Bills design
> >
> >
>
<http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=
> >
>
1&u=/netahtml/srchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=5760322.WKU.&OS=PN/5760322&RS=PN/5
> > 760322>
> >
> > or go to:
> > http://patft.uspto.gov/netahtml/search-bool.html
> >
> > and search for 5760322
> >
> > check out the part where "said curved portion being
> > configured to
> > alter the musical note of said one of said strings
> > by a second factor,
> > said second factor being said first factor flattened
> > by up to about
> > 1/12th of a semitone of diatonic musical scale" is
> > discussed.
> >
> > He's doing it for a different reason then Glenn
> > Peterson's work.
> >
> >
> > * David Beardsley
> > * microtonal guitar
> > * http://biink.com/db
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
> http://taxes.yahoo.com/
>
> You do not need web access to participate. You may subscribe through
> email. Send an empty email to one of these addresses:
> tuning-subscribe@yahoogroups.com - join the tuning group.
> tuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com - unsubscribe from the tuning group.
> tuning-nomail@yahoogroups.com - put your email message delivery on hold
for the tuning group.
> tuning-digest@yahoogroups.com - change your subscription to daily digest
mode.
> tuning-normal@yahoogroups.com - change your subscription to individual
emails.
> tuning-help@yahoogroups.com - receive general help information.
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

> On Thursday, February 27, 2003, at 04:09 , > tuning@yahoogroups.com wrote:
>
> Mark Rankin <markrankin95511@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: guitar frets
>
> Two and a half years ago Glen Peterson told Siemen
> Terpstra and me about how he had been warned by a
> competetor not to create any more of his curved frets.
>
> I have just tuned in to the current discussion today
> and haven't got the data on who the culprit is but if
> it can be of any help, over ten years ago french
> microtonalist Jacques Dudon built what he called a
> "Sruti Guitar" fretted in Just intonation. He said
> that it sounded so absolutely beautiful that everyone
> who heard him play it wanted to buy it from him!
> He sent me photos of it. Instead of the straight
> frets in a staggered configuration that I use on my
> interchangeable fretboards, Jacques used a combination
> of serpentine frets that he curved himself, and
> straight frets. The fretboard looks similar to what
> Glen did six years later.
>
> Who, exactly, is it who is trying to monopolize the
> curved fret market?
>
> --Mark Rankin

Hello Mark,

I was wondering how such an important issue had gone by without further comment. Thank you for this.

About your question - some twits at fretwave.com. I use that appellation having read the patent David cited. What they are doing is *not* honourable. Personally I also have a problem with people copyrighting/patenting things like scales.

- Joel Rodrigues

Joel,

Thanks for answering my question. Concerning the
patenting of scales: Back in the late '70's Tom Stone
tried to patent some interchangeable fretboards with
JI scales and was told by the U.S. Patent Office that
they did not grant patents on musical scales. He
ended up getting a patent for the interchangeability
feature of his fretboards.

I suspect that FretWave.com has received a patent on
"frets which curve" or some such concept, rather than
a patent on a musical scale. Also, it may be a
separate type of patent called a "Design Patent" which
has specifications which are different from those of a
standard patent. Anyone who would like to know the
details of their patent can order a copy of the patent
from the Patent Office for a dollar.

--Mark Rankin

--- Joel Rodrigues <jdrodrigues@Phreaker.net> wrote:
> > On Thursday, February 27, 2003, at 04:09 ,
> > tuning@yahoogroups.com wrote:
> >
> > Mark Rankin <markrankin95511@yahoo.com>
> > Subject: Re: guitar frets
> >
> > Two and a half years ago Glen Peterson told Siemen
> > Terpstra and me about how he had been warned by a
> > competetor not to create any more of his curved
> frets.
> >
> > I have just tuned in to the current discussion
> today
> > and haven't got the data on who the culprit is but
> if
> > it can be of any help, over ten years ago french
> > microtonalist Jacques Dudon built what he called a
> > "Sruti Guitar" fretted in Just intonation. He
> said
> > that it sounded so absolutely beautiful that
> everyone
> > who heard him play it wanted to buy it from him!
> > He sent me photos of it. Instead of the straight
> > frets in a staggered configuration that I use on
> my
> > interchangeable fretboards, Jacques used a
> combination
> > of serpentine frets that he curved himself, and
> > straight frets. The fretboard looks similar to
> what
> > Glen did six years later.
> >
> > Who, exactly, is it who is trying to monopolize
> the
> > curved fret market?
> >
> > --Mark Rankin
>
> Hello Mark,
>
> I was wondering how such an important issue had gone
> by without
> further comment. Thank you for this.
>
> About your question - some twits at fretwave.com. I
> use that
> appellation having read the patent David cited. What
> they are
> doing is *not* honourable. Personally I also have a
> problem with
> people copyrighting/patenting things like scales.
>
> - Joel Rodrigues
>
>
>

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
http://taxes.yahoo.com/

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Mark Rankin <markrankin95511@y...> wrote:
> Joel,
>
> Thanks for answering my question. Concerning the
> patenting of scales: Back in the late '70's Tom Stone
> tried to patent some interchangeable fretboards with
> JI scales and was told by the U.S. Patent Office that
> they did not grant patents on musical scales.

Obviously, you are supposed to copyright them instead.

>

Mark!
It seems to me the next step is to send the patent office this information as well as the lawyer for
the patent and Glen should take down the referance to this jerk and kindly mention Jacques Dudon as
someone who has done such work

>
> From: Mark Rankin <markrankin95511@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: Re: guitar frets
>
> Joel,
>
> Thanks for answering my question. Concerning the
> patenting of scales: Back in the late '70's Tom Stone
> tried to patent some interchangeable fretboards with
> JI scales and was told by the U.S. Patent Office that
> they did not grant patents on musical scales. He
> ended up getting a patent for the interchangeability
> feature of his fretboards.
>
> I suspect that FretWave.com has received a patent on
> "frets which curve" or some such concept, rather than
> a patent on a musical scale. Also, it may be a
> separate type of patent called a "Design Patent" which
> has specifications which are different from those of a
> standard patent. Anyone who would like to know the
> details of their patent can order a copy of the patent
> from the Patent Office for a dollar.
>
> --Mark Rankin
>
> --- Joel Rodrigues <jdrodrigues@Phreaker.net> wrote:
> > > On Thursday, February 27, 2003, at 04:09 ,
> > > tuning@yahoogroups.com wrote:
> > >
> > > Mark Rankin <markrankin95511@yahoo.com>
> > > Subject: Re: guitar frets
> > >
> > > Two and a half years ago Glen Peterson told Siemen
> > > Terpstra and me about how he had been warned by a
> > > competetor not to create any more of his curved
> > frets.
> > >
> > > I have just tuned in to the current discussion
> > today
> > > and haven't got the data on who the culprit is but
> > if
> > > it can be of any help, over ten years ago french
> > > microtonalist Jacques Dudon built what he called a
> > > "Sruti Guitar" fretted in Just intonation. He
> > said
> > > that it sounded so absolutely beautiful that
> > everyone
> > > who heard him play it wanted to buy it from him!
> > > He sent me photos of it. Instead of the straight
> > > frets in a staggered configuration that I use on
> > my
> > > interchangeable fretboards, Jacques used a
> > combination
> > > of serpentine frets that he curved himself, and
> > > straight frets. The fretboard looks similar to
> > what
> > > Glen did six years later.
> > >
> > > Who, exactly, is it who is trying to monopolize
> > the
> > > curved fret market?
> > >
> > > --Mark Rankin
> >
> > Hello Mark,
> >
> > I was wondering how such an important issue had gone
> > by without
> > further comment. Thank you for this.
> >
> > About your question - some twits at fretwave.com. I
> > use that
> > appellation having read the patent David cited. What
> > they are
> > doing is *not* honourable. Personally I also have a
> > problem with
> > people copyrighting/patenting things like scales.
> >
> > - Joel Rodrigues
> >
> >
> >
>

-- -Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island
http://www.anaphoria.com
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU 88.9 FM WED 8-9PM PST

On Friday, February 28, 2003, at 09:56 , Joel Rodrigues wrote:

>>
>> Who, exactly, is it who is trying to monopolize the
>> curved fret market?
>>
>> --Mark Rankin
>
> Hello Mark,
>
> I was wondering how such an important issue had gone by without > further comment. Thank you for this.
>
> About your question - some twits at fretwave.com. I use that > appellation having read the patent David cited. What they are > doing is *not* honourable. Personally I also have a problem > with people copyrighting/patenting things like scales.
>
> - Joel Rodrigues

I've found someone else who does offer curved fretted guitars, though not microtonal per se. With all the copyright & patent lunacy these days I don't know how safe it is to mention names in online public forums anymore, so I won't. You never know, the guy who dug the ditch to lay the cable that hooked me up to the telephone exchange to connect to the internet may get sued for copyright infringement.

- Joel