Music notation software for music with quarter-tones, esp. Persian music?

Hi Folks,

Does anyone know of music notation software that meets some or all of
the following criteria?

Must have:
* supports quarter tone notation
* allows quarter tone notation in the key signature

Would like:
* supports the Persian notation for "koron" and "sori"
* plays back the music with the quarter tones

Bonus points for:
* play back allows scale to be configured for just intonation

I've tried the demos for Lime and Opus, but they do not seem to allow
quarter tone notation in the key signature. If there is a way to do
this in either program, please tell me how.

Thanks in advance for any and all help.

Sincerely,
Christopher

Christopher J. Chapman wrote:

> Does anyone know of music notation software that meets some or all of
> the following criteria?
>
> Must have:
> * supports quarter tone notation
> * allows quarter tone notation in the key signature

I've been told that Score supports notation for
1/4 & 3/4 tone acidentals.

> Would like:
> * supports the Persian notation for "koron" and "sori"
> * plays back the music with the quarter tones
>
> Bonus points for:
> * play back allows scale to be configured for just intonation

I was also told that libraries of accidentals could be created. Of
coursesince I don't have the program I can't try it.

> I've tried the demos for Lime and Opus, but they do not seem to allow
> quarter tone notation in the key signature. If there is a way to do
> this in either program, please tell me how.

I'll let the list know the results as our experiments continue.

--
* D a v i d B e a r d s l e y
* xouoxno@virtulink.com
*
* J u x t a p o s i t i o n N e t R a d i o
* M E L A v i r t u a l d r e a m house monitor
*
* http://www.virtulink.com/immp/lookhere.htm

>From: "Christopher J. Chapman" <christopher.chapman@conexant.com>
>
>Does anyone know of music notation software that meets some or all of
>the following criteria?
>
>Must have:
>* supports quarter tone notation
>* allows quarter tone notation in the key signature

I'm not sure about the key signature for this software, but
I'd be terribly surprised if it couldn't handle this:

http://www.sibelius.com

Click on "Program" in the sidebar, then Features or In Detail.
From the section on accidentals: "all standard microtones included *
quarter-tones work as real accidentals, e.g. transposable,
respellable"

>Would like:
>* supports the Persian notation for "koron" and "sori"
>* plays back the music with the quarter tones

From the publishing section: "Music fonts and symbols: huge
range of miscellaneous symbols such as special noteheads, microtones,
figured bass, ornaments, percussion and chord symbols * comes with
Opus engraving font and Inkpen handwritten music font * compatible
with all standard music fonts including Petrucci, Sonata, Anastasia,
Susato, Ghent, Tamburo * create custom symbols using any character
from any font with any size/position, or any composite of characters"

That last bit seems most interesting.

I think I'll be downloading the demo, at least, sometime soon.
I do most of my work -- and I'm just starting -- via Csound, since I'm
a Unix geek of the worst sort and *like* text interfaces, but I think
Sibelius may be a more appropriate tool for my interest in the
Arabo-Turkic musical traditions.

And a shot into the void of this wonderful mailing-list: has
anyone used Sethares's "timbral tuning" with Arab or Turkish maqamat
(or Persian dastgah)? I can't see complex harmonies working well in,
say, maqam saba` -- I don't have a very robust tolerance for
dissonance -- but an adjusted timbre might result in some interesting
experiments: Palestrina meets Simon Shaheen.

--
William S. Annis wsannis@execpc.com
Mi parolas Esperanton - La Internacia Lingvo www.esperanto.org

> And a shot into the void of this wonderful mailing-list: has
>anyone used Sethares's "timbral tuning" with Arab or Turkish maqamat
>(or Persian dastgah)? I can't see complex harmonies working well in,
>say, maqam saba` -- I don't have a very robust tolerance for
>dissonance -- but an adjusted timbre might result in some interesting
>experiments: Palestrina meets Simon Shaheen.
>
>--
>William S. Annis wsannis@execpc.com
>Mi parolas Esperanton - La Internacia Lingvo www.esperanto.org

Dear Mr. Annis,

In my humble judgement, per my research based on direct measurements made
on performances by master musicians, the so called 'scales' in Turkish music
are NOT deterministic/fixed sequences, as in western music. Instead, they
are distributions or 'smears' along the pitch axis, where a certain 'note'
on the scale associated with the underlying maqam may present itself in a
multitude of pitches depending upon where the music is 'coming from' within
the past few sounds. Therefore, I do not believe a fixed tuning, no matter
how intricate, is the answer for Turkish music and possibly other musics.
The concept of 'tuning' has to be viewed in a revolutionary manner with a
fluid and dynamic structure.
Dr. Can Akkoc
Alabama School of Mathematics and Science
1255 Dauphin Street
Mobile, AL 36604
USA

Phone: (334) 441-2126
Fax: (334) 441-3290
Web: http://199.20.31.100/GIFT/

>From: Can Akkoc <akkoc@asms.net>
>
>> And a shot into the void of this wonderful mailing-list: has
>>anyone used Sethares's "timbral tuning" with Arab or Turkish maqamat
>>(or Persian dastgah)? I can't see complex harmonies working well in,
>>say, maqam saba` -- I don't have a very robust tolerance for
>>dissonance -- but an adjusted timbre might result in some interesting
>>experiments: Palestrina meets Simon Shaheen.
>>
>>--
>>William S. Annis wsannis@execpc.com
>
>
>Dear Mr. Annis,
>
>In my humble judgement, per my research based on direct measurements made
>on performances by master musicians, the so called 'scales' in Turkish music
>are NOT deterministic/fixed sequences, as in western music.

I agree that a given performer is going to inflect the pitches
of a given maqam during performance... just as a modern western
violinist does, for expression.

> Instead, they
>are distributions or 'smears' along the pitch axis, where a certain 'note'
>on the scale associated with the underlying maqam may present itself in a
>multitude of pitches depending upon where the music is 'coming from' within
>the past few sounds.

Agreed. Also, a given note, such as saba, is going to occupy
a different region depending on the maqam in which it appears. This
is certainly true in Arabic music. This presents a notational
nightmare of course, because what gets notated as E-quarter-flat in
maqam rast may be different than the E-quarter-flat in maqam bayati.

> Therefore, I do not believe a fixed tuning, no matter
>how intricate, is the answer for Turkish music and possibly other musics.
>The concept of 'tuning' has to be viewed in a revolutionary manner with a
>fluid and dynamic structure.

It has been argued that fixed tuning/notation isn't so great
for recording western music, either. Certainly folk musicians of
various sorts complain about notational limitations. But Sibelius is
still going to be a great tool, so long as you have the space to make
a note someplace that the note saba is the 4-comma version, instead of
the 5-comma version in the piece you're working on. (I keep abusing
the note saba, and the maqam... I could be wrong on precise details,
but I believe I'm making my point clear.)

Does your research involve investigations into seyir? I've
always found that a fascinating approach to structuring melody and
improvisation, but there's so little material about it in English.

Hmm... it just occured to me: an investigation the seyir
phenomenon wrt to Sethares's research might be interesting, too, but I
need to think about that some more...

--
William S. Annis wsannis@execpc.com
Mi parolas Esperanton - La Internacia Lingvo www.esperanto.org