Help

I need a couple of things. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

1: Software that I can download (I have a Mac iBook) that will accurately
analyze ethnic (Icelandic) solo microtonal vocal music. It needs to print out
the exact frequencies that are being produced. I have a project with an
Icelandic poet friend to write music for his poetry based on the tuning of
these Icelandic singers. It is also part of a research project to analyze
what these wonderful singers did. The music no longer exist. I will tune my
instruments, the Tambellan (A Tubular Modular [including the tuning system]
Percussion Orchestra Inspired by the Gamelans of Indonesia) to these scales
when I have the scales properly analyzed.

2: I also need a keyboard where I can tune microtonal scales accurately. One
that is accurate within the 100 cents to a half step as I do my tuning with a
strobe tuner. About a five octaves instrument. A used one would be fine. Also
would like to be able to interface the keyboard with the iBook. Thanks, Ron
George

Hello Ron

for my own personnal intonation project, I got some shareware or
freeware that run on Mac OS 8.6 or better:
All those can be downloaded from the net

http://www.hairersoft.com/Amadeus.html
Amadeus is a shareware that allow to visualize sound in amplitude-time
spectrum or spectrogram representation. When you select a frequency
value on the spectrum or spectrtogram, it gives you the frequency and
the nearest 12ET note. Unfortunately, the A4=440Hz can not be changed
(the author answer to my request that having the A4 tunable would be
easy to program but it is not yet done). To select the frequency with
accuracy in spectrum mode there is a "peak detection mode" that works
fairly well for "manual" pitch estimation.

http://www.speech.kth.se/wavesurfer/
Wavesurfer is an open source tool that is very much like Amadeus for
basic features. Wavesurfer features pitch extraction capabilities. It
may be useful for your project. But be careful, commonplace pitch
extraction algorithms proposes a precision that is rarely better than
1% (and often much worse). 1% may be sufficient for spoken voice
research or encoding, but for microtonality study, that is pretty lame
(1% = 17 cents) !!

I recently discovered Lemur pro
http://www.cerlsoundgroup.org/Lemur/LemurDocIndex.html
By oppsition with the two preceding tolls, it does not rely directly
on a FFT representation. Is uses a so called MQ transform that detects
peaks (from FFT in fact) and track them from frame to frame. It is
possible to edit the analysis files, remove tracks , morph and
resynthetise. It seems quite promising for high precision pitch
analysis and possibly multi-pitch analysis, but it require some work
to tune the software and process the data.

by the way Lemur pro works on MacIntosh and ONLY on Macintosh

All those are research tools. I do not know how proficient you are in
digital signal processing (DSP). I may be of some help if you need
some further explanation on how I uses Amadeus for tuning analysis.

yours truly

François Laferrire

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, RonMGeorge@a... wrote:
> I need a couple of things. Any suggestions would be greatly
appreciated.
>
> 1: Software that I can download (I have a Mac iBook) that will
accurately
> analyze ethnic (Icelandic) solo microtonal vocal music. It needs to
print out
> the exact frequencies that are being produced. I have a project with
an
> Icelandic poet friend to write music for his poetry based on the
tuning of
> these Icelandic singers. It is also part of a research project to
analyze
> what these wonderful singers did. The music no longer exist. I will
tune my
> instruments, the Tambellan (A Tubular Modular [including the tuning
system]
> Percussion Orchestra Inspired by the Gamelans of Indonesia) to these
scales
> when I have the scales properly analyzed.
>
> 2: I also need a keyboard where I can tune microtonal scales
accurately. One
> that is accurate within the 100 cents to a half step as I do my
tuning with a
> strobe tuner. About a five octaves instrument. A used one would be
fine. Also
> would like to be able to interface the keyboard with the iBook.
Thanks, Ron
> George

On Friday, January 17, 2003, at 06:29 , tuning@yahoogroups.com wrote:

> RonMGeorge@aol.com
> Subject: Help
>
> I need a couple of things. Any suggestions would be greatly > appreciated.
>
> 1: Software that I can download (I have a Mac iBook) that will > accurately
> analyze ethnic (Icelandic) solo microtonal vocal music. It > needs to print out
> the exact frequencies that are being produced. I have a project with an
> Icelandic poet friend to write music for his poetry based on > the tuning of
> these Icelandic singers. It is also part of a research project > to analyze
> what these wonderful singers did. The music no longer exist. I > will tune my
> instruments, the Tambellan (A Tubular Modular [including the > tuning system]
> Percussion Orchestra Inspired by the Gamelans of Indonesia) to > these scales
> when I have the scales properly analyzed.
>

George, try the thingy I pointed out yesterday:

Praat: doing phonetics by computer

http://www.praat.org

By: Paul Boersma and David Weenink
Institute of Phonetic Sciences
University of Amsterdam

There's a user group at:
http://egroups.com/list/praat-users/

- Joel

Hello francois and Everyone,
Does anyone know precisely what/which algorithms are used in the MIDI protocol for extracting the fundamental pitch from a monophonic musical waveform?
Thanks.
Can Akkoc
"francois_laferriere <francois.laferriere@oxymel.com>" <francois.laferriere@oxymel.com> wrote:Hello Ron

for my own personnal intonation project, I got some shareware or
freeware that run on Mac OS 8.6 or better:
All those can be downloaded from the net

http://www.hairersoft.com/Amadeus.html
Amadeus is a shareware that allow to visualize sound in amplitude-time
spectrum or spectrogram representation. When you select a frequency
value on the spectrum or spectrtogram, it gives you the frequency and
the nearest 12ET note. Unfortunately, the A4=440Hz can not be changed
(the author answer to my request that having the A4 tunable would be
easy to program but it is not yet done). To select the frequency with
accuracy in spectrum mode there is a "peak detection mode" that works
fairly well for "manual" pitch estimation.

http://www.speech.kth.se/wavesurfer/
Wavesurfer is an open source tool that is very much like Amadeus for
basic features. Wavesurfer features pitch extraction capabilities. It
may be useful for your project. But be careful, commonplace pitch
extraction algorithms proposes a precision that is rarely better than
1% (and often much worse). 1% may be sufficient for spoken voice
research or encoding, but for microtonality study, that is pretty lame
(1% = 17 cents) !!

I recently discovered Lemur pro
http://www.cerlsoundgroup.org/Lemur/LemurDocIndex.html
By oppsition with the two preceding tolls, it does not rely directly
on a FFT representation. Is uses a so called MQ transform that detects
peaks (from FFT in fact) and track them from frame to frame. It is
possible to edit the analysis files, remove tracks , morph and
resynthetise. It seems quite promising for high precision pitch
analysis and possibly multi-pitch analysis, but it require some work
to tune the software and process the data.

by the way Lemur pro works on MacIntosh and ONLY on Macintosh

All those are research tools. I do not know how proficient you are in
digital signal processing (DSP). I may be of some help if you need
some further explanation on how I uses Amadeus for tuning analysis.

yours truly

Fran�ois Laferrire

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, RonMGeorge@a... wrote:
> I need a couple of things. Any suggestions would be greatly
appreciated.
>
> 1: Software that I can download (I have a Mac iBook) that will
accurately
> analyze ethnic (Icelandic) solo microtonal vocal music. It needs to
print out
> the exact frequencies that are being produced. I have a project with
an
> Icelandic poet friend to write music for his poetry based on the
tuning of
> these Icelandic singers. It is also part of a research project to
analyze
> what these wonderful singers did. The music no longer exist. I will
tune my
> instruments, the Tambellan (A Tubular Modular [including the tuning
system]
> Percussion Orchestra Inspired by the Gamelans of Indonesia) to these
scales
> when I have the scales properly analyzed.
>
> 2: I also need a keyboard where I can tune microtonal scales
accurately. One
> that is accurate within the 100 cents to a half step as I do my
tuning with a
> strobe tuner. About a five octaves instrument. A used one would be
fine. Also
> would like to be able to interface the keyboard with the iBook.
Thanks, Ron
> George

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--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Can Akkoc <can193849@y...> wrote:
>
> Hello francois and Everyone,
> Does anyone know precisely what/which algorithms are used in the
MIDI protocol for extracting the fundamental pitch from a monophonic
musical waveform?
> Thanks.
> Can Akkoc

i'm probably misunderstanding your question, but the MIDI protocol
has absolutely no specification, algorithm, or support for analyzing
sound recordings / data of any kind. MIDI is simply a standard for
sending triggering messages to machines which then interpret the
messages (such as "C4") in their own unique ways, usually producing
the corresponding pitch via digital synthesis.

for more information, see http://www.midi.org/

"wallyesterpaulrus <wallyesterpaulrus@yahoo.com>" <wallyesterpaulrus@yahoo.com> wrote:
--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Can Akkoc <can193849@y...> wrote:
>
> Hello francois and Everyone,
> Does anyone know precisely what/which algorithms are used in the MIDI protocol for extracting the fundamental pitch from a monophonic musical waveform?
> Thanks.
> Can Akkoc

i'm probably misunderstanding your question, but the MIDI protocol has absolutely no specification, algorithm, or support for analyzing sound recordings / data of any kind. MIDI is simply a standard for
sending triggering messages to machines which then interpret the messages (such as "C4") in their own unique ways, usually producing the corresponding pitch via digital synthesis.

for more information, see http://www.midi.org/
***********

Thanks for your response. You're right, I was thinking in terms of Voice to MIDI software

Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT

You do not need web access to participate. You may subscribe through
email. Send an empty email to one of these addresses:
tuning-subscribe@yahoogroups.com - join the tuning group.
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tuning-digest@yahoogroups.com - change your subscription to daily digest mode.
tuning-normal@yahoogroups.com - change your subscription to individual emails.
tuning-help@yahoogroups.com - receive general help information.

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Can Akkoc

can193849@yahoo.com

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"wallyesterpaulrus <wallyesterpaulrus@yahoo.com>" <wallyesterpaulrus@yahoo.com> wrote:
--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Can Akkoc <can193849@y...> wrote:
>
> Hello francois and Everyone,
> Does anyone know precisely what/which algorithms are used in the MIDI protocol for extracting the fundamental pitch from a monophonic musical waveform?
> Thanks.
> Can Akkoc

i'm probably misunderstanding your question, but the MIDI protocol has absolutely no specification, algorithm, or support for analyzing sound recordings / data of any kind. MIDI is simply a standard for
sending triggering messages to machines which then interpret the messages (such as "C4") in their own unique ways, usually producing the corresponding pitch via digital synthesis.

for more information, see http://www.midi.org/

***********

Thanks for your response. You're right, I was thinking in terms of Voice to MIDI software

Can Akkoc

can193849@yahoo.com

---------------------------------
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Dear micro friends:
I want to know the numbers for the T. Perronet Thompson enharmonic
guitar.
I also think to remember there was a publication for his daughter.
Please, web pages ?
Eduardo

--
Eduardo Sabat-Garibaldi
Simon Bolivar 1260
11300 Montevideo
Uruguay
Phone: +(598)(2) 7080952
Webpage (Spanish and English): http://members.lycos.co.uk/dinarra

(IFIS): www.invention-ifia.ch/ifis/sectiong/g0101/g0101.htm

Querido Eduardo,

Fifteen or more years ago or more you sent me a copy
of your book on the Dinarra. Now I may be able to
repay your generosity and help you concerning T.
Perronet Thompson's book on the Enharmonic Guitar.
Many years ago, before you sent me your book, I stood
in front of a photocopy machine at the Library of
Congress in Washington, D.C., and made myself a
complete copy of Thompson's book, which was published
in the 1840's or so. My complete photocopy of the
book is on the bookshelf of my library at my
homestead in California. Unfortunately, I am
presently 3000 miles away from my homestead, helping
my brothers settle the estate of our father who died
last year. In September or October of this year I am
planning a trip to California to collect some of my
books and musical instruments in order to send them
here to Maryland on the east coast where I will be for
another year or more. If you haven't found the
Thompson numbers you need by early September, please
contact me and I will be happy to send them to you.
I seem to remember that his book contained a section
that he wrote especially for his daughter.

Sincerely,

Mark Rankin

--- Eduardo Sabat-Garibaldi <ESABAT@ADINET.COM.UY>
wrote:

> Dear micro friends:
> I want to know the numbers for the T. Perronet
> Thompson enharmonic
> guitar.
> I also think to remember there was a publication for
> his daughter.
> Please, web pages ?
> Eduardo
>
>
> --
> Eduardo Sabat-Garibaldi
> Simon Bolivar 1260
> 11300 Montevideo
> Uruguay
> Phone: +(598)(2) 7080952
> Webpage (Spanish and English):
> http://members.lycos.co.uk/dinarra
>
> (IFIS):
> www.invention-ifia.ch/ifis/sectiong/g0101/g0101.htm
>
>

____________________________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

It's good to hear from you again Mark. I hope that you fare well.

Cordially,
Ozan
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Rankin
To: tuning@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 18 Temmuz 2005 Pazartesi 21:30
Subject: Re: [tuning] Help

Querido Eduardo,

Fifteen or more years ago or more you sent me a copy
of your book on the Dinarra. Now I may be able to
repay your generosity and help you concerning T.
Perronet Thompson's book on the Enharmonic Guitar.
Many years ago, before you sent me your book, I stood
in front of a photocopy machine at the Library of
Congress in Washington, D.C., and made myself a
complete copy of Thompson's book, which was published
in the 1840's or so. My complete photocopy of the
book is on the bookshelf of my library at my
homestead in California. Unfortunately, I am
presently 3000 miles away from my homestead, helping
my brothers settle the estate of our father who died
last year. In September or October of this year I am
planning a trip to California to collect some of my
books and musical instruments in order to send them
here to Maryland on the east coast where I will be for
another year or more. If you haven't found the
Thompson numbers you need by early September, please
contact me and I will be happy to send them to you.
I seem to remember that his book contained a section
that he wrote especially for his daughter.

Sincerely,

Mark Rankin

hi Mark,

If i may be permitted to jump in here, i'd really
love to have a copy of that Thompson book if you're
willing to make one for me.

-monz

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Mark Rankin <markrankin95511@y...>
wrote:
> Querido Eduardo,
>
> Fifteen or more years ago or more you sent me a copy
> of your book on the Dinarra. Now I may be able to
> repay your generosity and help you concerning T.
> Perronet Thompson's book on the Enharmonic Guitar.
> Many years ago, before you sent me your book, I stood
> in front of a photocopy machine at the Library of
> Congress in Washington, D.C., and made myself a
> complete copy of Thompson's book, which was published
> in the 1840's or so. My complete photocopy of the
> book is on the bookshelf of my library at my
> homestead in California. Unfortunately, I am
> presently 3000 miles away from my homestead, helping
> my brothers settle the estate of our father who died
> last year. In September or October of this year I am
> planning a trip to California to collect some of my
> books and musical instruments in order to send them
> here to Maryland on the east coast where I will be for
> another year or more. If you haven't found the
> Thompson numbers you need by early September, please
> contact me and I will be happy to send them to you.
> I seem to remember that his book contained a section
> that he wrote especially for his daughter.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Mark Rankin
>
>
> --- Eduardo Sabat-Garibaldi <ESABAT@A...>
> wrote:
>
> > Dear micro friends:
> > I want to know the numbers for the T. Perronet
> > Thompson enharmonic
> > guitar.
> > I also think to remember there was a publication for
> > his daughter.
> > Please, web pages ?
> > Eduardo
> >
> >
> > --
> > Eduardo Sabat-Garibaldi
> > Simon Bolivar 1260
> > 11300 Montevideo
> > Uruguay
> > Phone: +(598)(2) 7080952
> > Webpage (Spanish and English):
> > http://members.lycos.co.uk/dinarra
> >
> > (IFIS):
> > www.invention-ifia.ch/ifis/sectiong/g0101/g0101.htm
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________
> Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

Monz,

Nice to hear from you! I don't think I've seen you
since the day we met twenty years ago. It was in
downtown San Diego when you and Jonathan were "playing
the city", literally, by having, among other things, a
ship in the harbor toot it's horn at a specific time!
For some reason, when I was typing your name at the
beginning of this message, I was tempted to embellish
it and spell it "Monzy" or Monzie" (perhaps because it
is really Monzo?), but I refrained - some people don't
appreciate such embellishments!

I'm thinking of staying in California long enough to
take a drive to Southern California and back from my
homestead in Humboldt county. If that should indeed
be the case, I'll bring Thompson's book along with me
and let you copy it in person. If I don't make it to
San Diego, I'll take the (unbound) book with me (or
ship it) when I go back to Maryland, where I'll be
able to copy it for you at my leisure when I return
east around November.

By the way, one of these days I hope to procure a copy
of your magnum opus - is it a finished book at this
point, or is it a project that will be added to
continually?

As they say in Danish, Har det godt! (Have it good!),

-- Mark

--- monz <monz@tonalsoft.com> wrote:

> hi Mark,
>
> If i may be permitted to jump in here, i'd really
> love to have a copy of that Thompson book if you're
> willing to make one for me.
>
>
> -monz
>
>
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Mark Rankin
> <markrankin95511@y...>
> wrote:
> > Querido Eduardo,
> >
> > Fifteen or more years ago or more you sent me a
> copy
> > of your book on the Dinarra. Now I may be able to
> > repay your generosity and help you concerning T.
> > Perronet Thompson's book on the Enharmonic Guitar.
>
> > Many years ago, before you sent me your book, I
> stood
> > in front of a photocopy machine at the Library of
> > Congress in Washington, D.C., and made myself a
> > complete copy of Thompson's book, which was
> published
> > in the 1840's or so. My complete photocopy of the
> > book is on the bookshelf of my library at my
> > homestead in California. Unfortunately, I am
> > presently 3000 miles away from my homestead,
> helping
> > my brothers settle the estate of our father who
> died
> > last year. In September or October of this year I
> am
> > planning a trip to California to collect some of
> my
> > books and musical instruments in order to send
> them
> > here to Maryland on the east coast where I will be
> for
> > another year or more. If you haven't found the
> > Thompson numbers you need by early September,
> please
> > contact me and I will be happy to send them to
> you.
> > I seem to remember that his book contained a
> section
> > that he wrote especially for his daughter.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> > Mark Rankin
> >
> >
> > --- Eduardo Sabat-Garibaldi <ESABAT@A...>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Dear micro friends:
> > > I want to know the numbers for the T. Perronet
> > > Thompson enharmonic
> > > guitar.
> > > I also think to remember there was a publication
> for
> > > his daughter.
> > > Please, web pages ?
> > > Eduardo
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Eduardo Sabat-Garibaldi
> > > Simon Bolivar 1260
> > > 11300 Montevideo
> > > Uruguay
> > > Phone: +(598)(2) 7080952
> > > Webpage (Spanish and English):
> > > http://members.lycos.co.uk/dinarra
> > >
> > > (IFIS):
> > >
> www.invention-ifia.ch/ifis/sectiong/g0101/g0101.htm
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ____________________________________________________
> > Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home
> page
> > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
>
>
>

____________________________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

Hi Mark,

Good to hear from you. No rush on the Thompson book,
you can send it to me anytime ... my plate is plenty full
already.

My own book ("JustMusic: A New Harmony"), alas, has not
seen any progress since i started my website in 1998.
I've continued to add new handwritten material to it,
but it's in major need of editing.

Now that my Tonescape software is nearing release, i
anticipate being able to redo all the lattice diagrams
in the book, using Tonescape. So hopefully the book
will really finally be finished within the next year or so.
I'm still making individual copies for those who want it
as it is now. Just write me privately.

http://sonic-arts.org/monzo/book/book.htm

-monz

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Mark Rankin <markrankin95511@y...>
wrote:
> Monz,
>
> Nice to hear from you! I don't think I've seen you
> since the day we met twenty years ago. It was in
> downtown San Diego when you and Jonathan were "playing
> the city", literally, by having, among other things, a
> ship in the harbor toot it's horn at a specific time!
> For some reason, when I was typing your name at the
> beginning of this message, I was tempted to embellish
> it and spell it "Monzy" or Monzie" (perhaps because it
> is really Monzo?), but I refrained - some people don't
> appreciate such embellishments!
>
> I'm thinking of staying in California long enough to
> take a drive to Southern California and back from my
> homestead in Humboldt county. If that should indeed
> be the case, I'll bring Thompson's book along with me
> and let you copy it in person. If I don't make it to
> San Diego, I'll take the (unbound) book with me (or
> ship it) when I go back to Maryland, where I'll be
> able to copy it for you at my leisure when I return
> east around November.
>
> By the way, one of these days I hope to procure a copy
> of your magnum opus - is it a finished book at this
> point, or is it a project that will be added to
> continually?
>
> As they say in Danish, Har det godt! (Have it good!),
>