Forwarding messages that were sent to the old Mills server:

>Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 11:13:27 -0500 (EST)

>

> TUNING Digest 1611

>

>Topics covered in this issue include:

>

> 1) TUNING digest 1610

> by Daniel Wolf <DJWOLF_MATERIAL@compuserve.com>

> 2) pelog and 9-tET

> by "Paul H. Erlich" <PErlich@Acadian-Asset.com>

> 3) RE: pelog and 9-tET

> by "Paul H. Erlich" <PErlich@Acadian-Asset.com>

>

>----------------------------------------------------------------------

>

>Topic No. 1

>

>Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 19:42:17 -0500

>From: Daniel Wolf <DJWOLF_MATERIAL@compuserve.com>

>To: "INTERNET:tuning@eartha.mills.edu" <tuning@eartha.mills.edu>

>Subject: TUNING digest 1610

>Message-ID: <199901201943_MC2-675E-AA3B@compuserve.com>

>

>William Sethares wrote:

>

><Can you explain this more? What is the relationship between =

>

><pelog and 9-tet? (Or did you mean 7-tet?)

>

>9-tet can be thought of as a tempered pelog system carried out to nine

>terms. The narrow fifth, 400 cent large third and 267 cent small third ar=

>e

>typical of real, existing, pelogs, but the utility of the temperament com=

>es

>at the loss of distinctions among seconds which are equally typical and

>feature in the distinctiveness of the individual pathet. (Thus, existing

>pelogs can be thought of as "well-tempered", accomodating modulation to a=

>ll

>available pathet, but not exactly reproducing the interval sequence

>identically. Typically, the small thirds are divided unequally and the

>fifths may be as wide as just) =

>

>

>The three pathet in use in central Java map nicely onto 7 tones out of th=

>e

>9-tet gamut so:

>

>9tet 0/9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9/0

> 1 2 4 5 6 =

>

> 1 2 3 5 6

> 2 3 5 6 7

>

>Note that the three pathet are the only three in the 7-tone gamut which

>maintain the characteristic interval sequence of the pentatonic pelog. =

>

>

>Much as slendro intervals will tend to average out to 5-tet, thus

>recommending spectra related by intervals found in the 5-tet gamut, the

>intervals of the individual pelog pathet will tend towards intervals foun=

>d

>in 9-tet when lined up and averaged

>

> 1 2 4 5 6 1

> 5 6 1 2 3 5

> 2 3 5 6 7 2

>

>and spectra related by intervals found in this gamut should sound well. =

>

>

>7-tet is the theoretical ideal in much of mainland Southeast Asia; it is

>quite a different subject. However, the feature of modulation to all seve=

>n

>available pentatonic modes is shared with the decidely _unequal_ ritual

>7-tone ensembles of East Bali. Perhaps this represents some heritage from=

>

>the era of Javanese hegemony throughout Southeast Asia. But the contrast =

>in

>the effect of the modal practice between the mainland and Balinese system=

>s

>couldn't be greater: modulation in the mainland 7-tet systems is a matter=

>

>of pitch height transposition and perhaps octave-limit determined

>instrumental contour, but the archaic Balinese are "well-tempered" in the=

>

>extreme and each mode is intonationally distinct, including both slendro-=

>,

>pelog- and degung-like scale types. =

>

>------------------------------

>

>Topic No. 2

>

>Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 20:25:15 -0500

>From: "Paul H. Erlich" <PErlich@Acadian-Asset.com>

>To: "'tuning@eartha.mills.edu'" <tuning@eartha.mills.edu>

>Subject: pelog and 9-tET

>Message-ID: <85B74BA01678D211ACDE00805FBE3C050B65E5@MARS>

>

>Daniel Wolf wrote,

>

>>> Indeed, timbres based on 9tet will sound reasonably well

>>>with most any pelog.

>

>William Sethares wrote,

>

>>Can you explain this more? What is the relationship between

>>pelog and 9-tet? (Or did you mean 7-tet?)

>

>Not to answer for Daniel, but 9-tET contains a very believable pelog

>scale: its step sizes are

>

>1 3 1 1 3

>

>The fifth of 9-tET is 667 cents and works best with cloudy and/or

>inharmonic timbres. Then the scale

>

>1 2 1 2 1 2

>

>has three major triads and three minor triads, all sounding distorted

>but recognizable.

>

>I've had a lot of fun improvising polyphonically in 9-tET using these

>two scales. I was inspired to tune it up on my keyboard by Ivor Darreg's

>9-tET piece on _Detwelvulate_, IMO one of the few convincing pieces on

>that CD.

>

>------------------------------

>

>Topic No. 3

>

>Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 21:31:48 -0500

>From: "Paul H. Erlich" <PErlich@Acadian-Asset.com>

>To: "'tuning@eartha.mills.edu'" <tuning@eartha.mills.edu>

>Cc: "'tuning@onelist.com'" <tuning@onelist.com>

>Subject: RE: pelog and 9-tET

>Message-ID: <85B74BA01678D211ACDE00805FBE3C050B65EC@MARS>

>

>I wrote,

>

>>Not to answer for Daniel, but 9-tET contains a very believable pelog

>scale: its step sizes are

>

>>1 3 1 1 3

>

>The full pelog 7-note tuning would be 1 1 2 1 1 1 2.

>

>------------------------------

>

>End of TUNING Digest 1611

>*************************

>

+------------------------------------------------------+

| Mark Nowitzky |

| email: nowitzky@alum.mit.edu AIM: Nowitzky |

| www: http://www.pacificnet.net/~nowitzky |

| "If you haven't visited Mark Nowitzky's home |

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