TUNING digest 1611 (from old Mills server)

Forwarding messages that were sent to the old Mills server:

>Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 11:13:27 -0500 (EST)
>
> TUNING Digest 1611
>
>Topics covered in this issue include:
>
> 1) TUNING digest 1610
> by Daniel Wolf <DJWOLF_MATERIAL@compuserve.com>
> 2) pelog and 9-tET
> by "Paul H. Erlich" <PErlich@Acadian-Asset.com>
> 3) RE: pelog and 9-tET
> by "Paul H. Erlich" <PErlich@Acadian-Asset.com>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Topic No. 1
>
>Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 19:42:17 -0500
>From: Daniel Wolf <DJWOLF_MATERIAL@compuserve.com>
>To: "INTERNET:tuning@eartha.mills.edu" <tuning@eartha.mills.edu>
>Subject: TUNING digest 1610
>Message-ID: <199901201943_MC2-675E-AA3B@compuserve.com>
>
>William Sethares wrote:
>
><Can you explain this more? What is the relationship between =
>
><pelog and 9-tet? (Or did you mean 7-tet?)
>
>9-tet can be thought of as a tempered pelog system carried out to nine
>terms. The narrow fifth, 400 cent large third and 267 cent small third ar=
>e
>typical of real, existing, pelogs, but the utility of the temperament com=
>es
>at the loss of distinctions among seconds which are equally typical and
>feature in the distinctiveness of the individual pathet. (Thus, existing
>pelogs can be thought of as "well-tempered", accomodating modulation to a=
>ll
>available pathet, but not exactly reproducing the interval sequence
>identically. Typically, the small thirds are divided unequally and the
>fifths may be as wide as just) =
>
>
>The three pathet in use in central Java map nicely onto 7 tones out of th=
>e
>9-tet gamut so:
>
>9tet 0/9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9/0
> 1 2 4 5 6 =
>
> 1 2 3 5 6
> 2 3 5 6 7
>
>Note that the three pathet are the only three in the 7-tone gamut which
>maintain the characteristic interval sequence of the pentatonic pelog. =
>
>
>Much as slendro intervals will tend to average out to 5-tet, thus
>recommending spectra related by intervals found in the 5-tet gamut, the
>intervals of the individual pelog pathet will tend towards intervals foun=
>d
>in 9-tet when lined up and averaged
>
> 1 2 4 5 6 1
> 5 6 1 2 3 5
> 2 3 5 6 7 2
>
>and spectra related by intervals found in this gamut should sound well. =
>
>
>7-tet is the theoretical ideal in much of mainland Southeast Asia; it is
>quite a different subject. However, the feature of modulation to all seve=
>n
>available pentatonic modes is shared with the decidely _unequal_ ritual
>7-tone ensembles of East Bali. Perhaps this represents some heritage from=
>
>the era of Javanese hegemony throughout Southeast Asia. But the contrast =
>in
>the effect of the modal practice between the mainland and Balinese system=
>s
>couldn't be greater: modulation in the mainland 7-tet systems is a matter=
>
>of pitch height transposition and perhaps octave-limit determined
>instrumental contour, but the archaic Balinese are "well-tempered" in the=
>
>extreme and each mode is intonationally distinct, including both slendro-=
>,
>pelog- and degung-like scale types. =
>
>------------------------------
>
>Topic No. 2
>
>Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 20:25:15 -0500
>From: "Paul H. Erlich" <PErlich@Acadian-Asset.com>
>To: "'tuning@eartha.mills.edu'" <tuning@eartha.mills.edu>
>Subject: pelog and 9-tET
>Message-ID: <85B74BA01678D211ACDE00805FBE3C050B65E5@MARS>
>
>Daniel Wolf wrote,
>
>>> Indeed, timbres based on 9tet will sound reasonably well
>>>with most any pelog.
>
>William Sethares wrote,
>
>>Can you explain this more? What is the relationship between
>>pelog and 9-tet? (Or did you mean 7-tet?)
>
>Not to answer for Daniel, but 9-tET contains a very believable pelog
>scale: its step sizes are
>
>1 3 1 1 3
>
>The fifth of 9-tET is 667 cents and works best with cloudy and/or
>inharmonic timbres. Then the scale
>
>1 2 1 2 1 2
>
>has three major triads and three minor triads, all sounding distorted
>but recognizable.
>
>I've had a lot of fun improvising polyphonically in 9-tET using these
>two scales. I was inspired to tune it up on my keyboard by Ivor Darreg's
>9-tET piece on _Detwelvulate_, IMO one of the few convincing pieces on
>that CD.
>
>------------------------------
>
>Topic No. 3
>
>Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 21:31:48 -0500
>From: "Paul H. Erlich" <PErlich@Acadian-Asset.com>
>To: "'tuning@eartha.mills.edu'" <tuning@eartha.mills.edu>
>Cc: "'tuning@onelist.com'" <tuning@onelist.com>
>Subject: RE: pelog and 9-tET
>Message-ID: <85B74BA01678D211ACDE00805FBE3C050B65EC@MARS>
>
>I wrote,
>
>>Not to answer for Daniel, but 9-tET contains a very believable pelog
>scale: its step sizes are
>
>>1 3 1 1 3
>
>The full pelog 7-note tuning would be 1 1 2 1 1 1 2.
>
>------------------------------
>
>End of TUNING Digest 1611
>*************************
>
+------------------------------------------------------+
| Mark Nowitzky |
| email: nowitzky@alum.mit.edu AIM: Nowitzky |
| www: http://www.pacificnet.net/~nowitzky |
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