Lattice keyboards (was Intro to Hexany page)

Hi there,

Following on from the question about the history of lattices,
I was wondering when the lattice keyboards originiated
- triangular or square layout.

Maybe I can ask Margo about her dual keyboards too.
Were they a medieval invention, or a modern one?

Once you've got the idea of a dual manual keyboard, it would
be fairly natural to think about the possibility of adding a third
or more manuals to it too, and so you are heading off into thte
direction of a two dimesnioanl lattice like layout.

Robert

--- In tuning@y..., "Robert Walker" <robertwalker@n...> wrote:
> Hi there,
>
> Following on from the question about the history of lattices,
> I was wondering when the lattice keyboards originiated
> - triangular or square layout.
>
> Maybe I can ask Margo about her dual keyboards too.
> Were they a medieval invention, or a modern one?
>
> Once you've got the idea of a dual manual keyboard, it would
> be fairly natural to think about the possibility of adding a third
> or more manuals to it too, and so you are heading off into thte
> direction of a two dimesnioanl lattice like layout.
>
> Robert

I recall reading that the famous 13th-century first-ever 7+5 organ
keyboard at Halberstadt was only on the *third manual* of that
instrument. So I would conclude that multiple keyboards even predate
the 12-tone-per-octave keyboard!

--George

hi Robert,

> From: "Robert Walker" <robertwalker@ntlworld.com>
> To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 10:02 AM
> Subject: [tuning] Lattice keyboards (was Intro to Hexany page)
>
>
> Hi there,
>
> Following on from the question about the history of lattices,
> I was wondering when the lattice keyboards originiated
> - triangular or square layout.

i've posted about this before, so it's in the list archives
from last year or before.

the _Tonnetz_ used in books by Oettingen, Riemann, and
other German-language theorists during the 1800s is nothing
other than a 5-limit triangular lattice.

one of the earliest keyboard ideas based the lattice, of
which i'm aware, is the organ keyboard designed by
Henry Ward Poole (of Massachusetts), published in 1867,
and described prominently in Ellis's appendix to his
translation of Helmholtz, _On the sensations of tone_.
i have a webpage about it, but unfortunately as yet still
without a picture of the keyboard design itself.
http://sonic-arts.org/monzo/poole/poole.htm

Bosanquet's keyboard ideas were published in 1875 and
are similar.

-monz
"all roads lead to n^0"

> I recall reading that the famous 13th-century first-ever 7+5 organ
> keyboard at Halberstadt was only on the *third manual* of that
> instrument. So I would conclude that multiple keyboards even predate
> the 12-tone-per-octave keyboard!

But what were the OTHER manuals like then?
/Ö

--- In tuning@y..., Mats Öljare <oljare@h...> wrote:
> > I recall reading that the famous 13th-century first-ever 7+5
organ
> > keyboard at Halberstadt was only on the *third manual* of that
> > instrument. So I would conclude that multiple keyboards even
predate
> > the 12-tone-per-octave keyboard!
>
> But what were the OTHER manuals like then?
> /Ö

They had fewer keys per octave, but I don't know how many. As I
recall, at one time the organ had just one row of keys (7 per octave)
on a manual, and the others were gradually added one at a time in a
second row. So the Halberstadt third manual was just the culmination
of an ongoing process.

By the way, I regret something I said earlier (message #39579):

Re: Accordion keyboards
--- In tuning@y..., "gdsecor" <gdsecor@y...> wrote:
> --- In tuning@y..., Mats Öljare <oljare@h...> wrote:
> > Players can only benefit from
> > having the same system and the minor third system is one that
> already
> > is in use-on accordions.
>
> But what we need now is a *keyboard* (singular) that will benefit
> players who wish to use alternative tuning *systems* (plural), not
> another *keyboard* (singlar) for *12-ET* (singular). I think it
> would be more in our interest to advocate a Bosanquet keyboard on
the
> accordion and elsewhere. A chromatic keyboard is not going to make
> alternative tuning systems more practical, nor will the experience
of
> learning 12-ET on a chromatic keyboard enable anyone to play any
> alternative tuning systems that have other than 12 tones in the
> octave.
>
> --George

In taking another look at the chromatic accordion keyboard, I
realized that if you replace the reeds in the instrument with ones
tuned to 19-ET, the tones would be arranged exactly as on the
Bosanquet generalized keyboard, except that the rows of keys are not
slanted. And with slanted rows I think that the construction would
not be much different from what it is now.

--George

--- In tuning@y..., "gdsecor" <gdsecor@y...> wrote:
> ... As I
> recall, at one time the organ had just one row of keys (7 per
octave)
> on a manual, and the others were gradually added one at a time in a
> second row. So the [13th-century] Halberstadt third manual was
just the culmination
> of an ongoing process.

This almost makes it sound as if I were there when all of this took
place. I should have said, "As I recall reading someplace, at one
time ..."

--George