Yahoo Tuning Groups Ultimate Backup tuning the text-only stone age

Gary Morrison wrote:

> Dang, we just have to find some way to bring this list out of the text-only
> stone age to where we can exchange actual musical examples. Without the real
> music it's all of marginal value, or that's what I think anyway, and it would
> appear that we can chock up yet another talented microtonalist who agrees.

Haven't we been down this road before? The solutionis html - web pages - with Real
Audio and/or MP3
streaming audio files.

I been broadcasting a microtonal Real Audio web cast for 7 weeks
and so far (except for one person who contacted me about
a previous program I was on) no one from this list has let me know
that they have heard the show or it's archives. So maybe the
problem with the list isn't a lack of music but an over abundance
of theory heads.

And unlike some members of this list, I'm not into
shameless self-promotion. I've had a few CDs out on my Biink!
label since Winter and other than copies I gave away to
friends and aquaintances, there's been very little interest
from the list.

Hell, I even put a Real Audio of a short JI piece on my
bio page - and announced it to the list to no response.

--
* D a v i d B e a r d s l e y
* xouoxno@virtulink.com
*
* J u x t a p o s i t i o n E z i n e
* M E L A v i r t u a l d r e a m house monitor
*
* http://www.virtulink.com/immp/lookhere.htm

🔗hmiller@xx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)

On Mon, 26 Jul 1999 19:45:38 -0400, David Beardsley <xouoxno@home.com>
wrote:

>From: David Beardsley <xouoxno@home.com>
>
>Gary Morrison wrote:
>
>> Dang, we just have to find some way to bring this list out of the text-only
>> stone age to where we can exchange actual musical examples. Without the real
>> music it's all of marginal value, or that's what I think anyway, and it would
>> appear that we can chock up yet another talented microtonalist who agrees.
>
>Haven't we been down this road before? The solutionis html - web pages - with Real
>Audio and/or MP3
>streaming audio files.

MIDI files are another possible solution. Relatively short MIDI examples
(say, 4-6K long, not much more than a mid-sized text message, and shorter
than some) could even be posted to the list as MIME attachments. I have to
admit that it's hard to imagine what all these theoretical scales might
sound like in actual musical examples. Web links are nice, but my feeling
is that we should also encourage things like SCALA-usable descriptions of
scales and even brief MIDI examples (though we should try to keep them no
longer than a typical text message for obvious reasons).

So for instance, here's an example of an idea that I've been playing with
recently, nowhere near a complete composition, and probably not worth
putting on a web page, but it's an interesting idea that actually uses
11-tet of all things! I also found that it transposes easily to 18-tet, but
I don't yet have a MIDI 18-tet version of it.

--
see my music page ---> +--<http://www.io.com/~hmiller/music/music.html>--
Thryomanes /"If all Printers were determin'd not to print any
(Herman Miller) / thing till they were sure it would offend no body,
moc.oi @ rellimh <-/ there would be very little printed." -Ben Franklin

🔗David J. Finnamore <dfin@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx>

Gary Morrison wrote:

I must stand up and say that the theoretical discussions on
this list have been of great value to me. I feel deeply
indebted to many people on this list, especially those who
have taken the time to straighten me out <g>, and most
especially those who written to me off-list. I went to
college in hopes of learning the things that are discussed
frequently in this forum but my teachers didn't know this
stuff, so I graduated feeling a bit disappointed. I feel
like I hit the jackpot when I discovered the tuning list.
Long live the theory heads and math monsters!

But, yes, examples are needful. And they really are quite
plentiful out there. Just follow the links on Starrett's
page for starters, it's like Web Tuning Central Station for
me. I can understand someone leaving this list if they
don't understand math and music theory. Why is that a
problem? They can still be part of the tuning community by
playing at festivals, putting up their own site with
examples of their music, keeping everyone else's pages
bookmarked, listening to Juxtaposition Netzine Radio, etc.

David Beardsley wrote:

> I been broadcasting a microtonal Real Audio web cast for 7 weeks
> and so far (except for one person who contacted me about
> a previous program I was on) no one from this list has let me know
> that they have heard the show or it's archives. So maybe the
> problem with the list isn't a lack of music but an over abundance
> of theory heads.

Or maybe it's that theory heads don't always send emails to
broadcasters whose work they appreciate very much. Mea
culpa on that. I not only listen to your shows, I have some
of them archived on my hard drive for future reference.

> Hell, I even put a Real Audio of a short JI piece on my
> bio page - and announced it to the list to no response.

No email response doesn't mean no visits, nor does it mean
lack of interest in what was heard. Getting one of these
freebie counters can help allay your worries that no one is
visiting your page (or let you know that you need to try
something different.).

Herman Miller wrote:
> MIDI files [snip] could even be posted to the list as MIME attachments.

But MIME attachments don't transfer to those of us who get
the list digest-style. If you send a binary attachment of
any kind, please also provide a d-load link on a web page
and include the URL in your message.

> Web links are nice, but my feeling
> is that we should also encourage things like SCALA-usable descriptions of
> scales

Not all of us know or use SCALA. It's best, IMO, to stick
to browser-friendly formats.

And another thing, don't forget that for MIDI playback on a
Sound Blaster 16-compatible (still about 95% of the market),
always use a software synth plug-in such as Beatnik, Yamaha
MIDI-plug, or Quicktime MIDI player. Otherwise all
non-12t-ET tunings will be skewed just enough to ruin them
in many cases. Macs don't have this problem nor do those
using samples for playback instead of that funky old AdLib
FM chip.

David Finnamore

🔗patrick pagano <ppagano@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx>

David
what i think Dave Beardsley is after is that if you missplace a decimal or make an
off topic comment you get thirty emails saying what a foon you are but if you
actually have a microtonal show the props are few. I hear folks lamenting the
departure of certain individuals who did little beyond dispense condescending
"advice" and plug their own gigs.I do not want to speak for david (IMHO) though he
is one of THEE most vital artists on this list.
Pat Pagano,Director
South East Just Intonation Society

"David J. Finnamore" wrote:

> From: "David J. Finnamore" <dfin@bellsouth.net>
>
> Gary Morrison wrote:
>
> > Dang, we just have to find some way to bring this list out of the text-only
> > stone age to where we can exchange actual musical examples. Without the real
> > music it's all of marginal value, or that's what I think anyway, and it would
> > appear that we can chock up yet another talented microtonalist who agrees.
>
> I must stand up and say that the theoretical discussions on
> this list have been of great value to me. I feel deeply
> indebted to many people on this list, especially those who
> have taken the time to straighten me out <g>, and most
> especially those who written to me off-list. I went to
> college in hopes of learning the things that are discussed
> frequently in this forum but my teachers didn't know this
> stuff, so I graduated feeling a bit disappointed. I feel
> like I hit the jackpot when I discovered the tuning list.
> Long live the theory heads and math monsters!
>
> But, yes, examples are needful. And they really are quite
> plentiful out there. Just follow the links on Starrett's
> page for starters, it's like Web Tuning Central Station for
> me. I can understand someone leaving this list if they
> don't understand math and music theory. Why is that a
> problem? They can still be part of the tuning community by
> playing at festivals, putting up their own site with
> examples of their music, keeping everyone else's pages
> bookmarked, listening to Juxtaposition Netzine Radio, etc.
>
> David Beardsley wrote:
>
> > I been broadcasting a microtonal Real Audio web cast for 7 weeks
> > and so far (except for one person who contacted me about
> > a previous program I was on) no one from this list has let me know
> > that they have heard the show or it's archives. So maybe the
> > problem with the list isn't a lack of music but an over abundance
> > of theory heads.
>
> Or maybe it's that theory heads don't always send emails to
> broadcasters whose work they appreciate very much. Mea
> culpa on that. I not only listen to your shows, I have some
> of them archived on my hard drive for future reference.
>
> > Hell, I even put a Real Audio of a short JI piece on my
> > bio page - and announced it to the list to no response.
>
> No email response doesn't mean no visits, nor does it mean
> lack of interest in what was heard. Getting one of these
> freebie counters can help allay your worries that no one is
> visiting your page (or let you know that you need to try
> something different.).
>
> Herman Miller wrote:
> > MIDI files [snip] could even be posted to the list as MIME attachments.
>
> But MIME attachments don't transfer to those of us who get
> the list digest-style. If you send a binary attachment of
> any kind, please also provide a d-load link on a web page
> and include the URL in your message.
>
> > Web links are nice, but my feeling
> > is that we should also encourage things like SCALA-usable descriptions of
> > scales
>
> Not all of us know or use SCALA. It's best, IMO, to stick
> to browser-friendly formats.
>
> And another thing, don't forget that for MIDI playback on a
> Sound Blaster 16-compatible (still about 95% of the market),
> always use a software synth plug-in such as Beatnik, Yamaha
> MIDI-plug, or Quicktime MIDI player. Otherwise all
> non-12t-ET tunings will be skewed just enough to ruin them
> in many cases. Macs don't have this problem nor do those
> using samples for playback instead of that funky old AdLib
> FM chip.
>
> David Finnamore
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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🔗David Beardsley <xouoxno@xxxx.xxxx>

David J. Finnamore wrote:

> David Beardsley wrote:
>
> > I been broadcasting a microtonal Real Audio web cast for 7 weeks
> > and so far (except for one person who contacted me about
> > a previous program I was on) no one from this list has let me know
> > that they have heard the show or it's archives. So maybe the
> > problem with the list isn't a lack of music but an over abundance
> > of theory heads.
>
> Or maybe it's that theory heads don't always send emails to
> broadcasters whose work they appreciate very much. Mea
> culpa on that. I not only listen to your shows, I have some
> of them archived on my hard drive for future reference.

Glad to hear that somebody enjoyed it.

> > Hell, I even put a Real Audio of a short JI piece on my
> > bio page - and announced it to the list to no response.
>
> No email response doesn't mean no visits, nor does it mean
> lack of interest in what was heard. Getting one of these
> freebie counters can help allay your worries that no one is
> visiting your page (or let you know that you need to try
> something different.).

There's counters all over my web sites but I just never botheredto put one on my bio
page. I just expected some kind of
email or list response. I was doing some radical (or so
I thought at the time) things with rhythm on that one.
Still highly influenced by Zappa and Conlon Nancarrow at the time
and very different that what I do these days.

> > Web links are nice, but my feeling
> > is that we should also encourage things like SCALA-usable descriptions of
> > scales
>
> Not all of us know or use SCALA. It's best, IMO, to stick
> to browser-friendly formats.

A Scala file is just a list of the intervals (rational or irrational).You don't need
a copy of the Scala program to read the
Scala.scl files - just a text editor.

--
* D a v i d B e a r d s l e y
* xouoxno@virtulink.com
*
* J u x t a p o s i t i o n E z i n e
* M E L A v i r t u a l d r e a m house monitor
*
* http://www.virtulink.com/immp/lookhere.htm

🔗David Beardsley <xouoxno@xxxx.xxxx>

patrick pagano wrote:

> David
> what i think Dave Beardsley is after is that if you missplace a decimal or make an
> off topic comment you get thirty emails saying what a foon you are but if you
> actually have a microtonal show the props are few.

Until the email on the list in respose to my whining, itsure seemed like it.

> I hear folks lamenting the
> departure of certain individuals who did little beyond dispense condescending
> "advice" and plug their own gigs.I do not want to speak for david (IMHO) though he
> is one of THEE most vital artists on this list.

Thanks Mr. Director, I like your music too! For me, the
music is the most important aspect of the whole tuning universe.

> --

* D a v i d B e a r d s l e y
* xouoxno@virtulink.com
*
* J u x t a p o s i t i o n E z i n e
* M E L A v i r t u a l d r e a m house monitor
*
* http://www.virtulink.com/immp/lookhere.htm

🔗David Beardsley <xouoxno@xxxx.xxxx>

🔗Clark <caccola@xxxxxxxx.xxxx>

🔗Paul H. Erlich <PErlich@xxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxxx>

🔗Clark <caccola@xxxxxxxx.xxxx>

Paul H. Erlich wrote:

> Unfortunately, without a recognizable 5:4 or 3:2, there's no way to clearly
> imply 16:15 in 11-tET. The only clear near-just interval in 11-tET is 436
> cents, (9:7 is 435 cents). The only other recognizable interval is 327
> cents, which is not too far from 6:5 at 316 cents. Otherwise, 11-tET is
> highly irrational. In fact, Blackwood and I independently arrived at the
> conclusion that it is the best ET for random dissonance. Double it up to
> 22-tET, however, and suddenly lots of consonant structures (and other good
> things) become available.

Whoops, I missed the 9:7 although I thought about 6:5. I was all set to post
that 11:10 was good - serves me right for looking at a 22-tet table.

The reason I like 22-tet? Aside from those consonant structures and good
things, halve it and you get 11-tet!

Clark Panaccione