Re: [tuning] Re: is this a mistake?? [Hertz-Hz]

In a message dated 10/14/02 11:01:26 PM Central Daylight Time,
jpehrson@rcn.com writes:

> ***Thanks, Pauline!
>
> Joseph
>
Some year ago scientists decided to name certain effects by the person who
was msot notable working with it. Hertz was a German physicist. He did a lot
of research and experimentation with wavelengths, which at whatever speed had
been called cycles per second or cps for short. By using Hertz's name for
this effect, two words were eliminated. And by using Hz one letter was
eliminated. (Scientific articles and books are long enough as it is wthout
any unnecessary extra words or letters!)

Pauline

Strictly speaking, Cycles Per Second or Hertz or Hz is not a unit in the
same sense as an Ampere or Henry or Volt. Units, which are usually named
after scientists working in related fields, all can be ultimately defined in
terms of mass, length and time. By this definition, "cycle" cannot be
defined in terms of mass or length. It could have been defined in terms of
the vibrational frequency of some standard length air column at standard
temperature and pressure, I suppose.

Ed Borasky

(who defines a "Borasky" as a unit of pedantic annoyance :-))

M. Edward (Ed) Borasky
mailto: znmeb@borasky-research.net
http://www.borasky-research.net
(503)-314-6479

Coaching: It's Not Just for Athletes Any More!

-----Original Message-----
From: prophecyspirit@aol.com [mailto:prophecyspirit@aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 7:36 AM
To: tuning@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [tuning] Re: is this a mistake?? [Hertz-Hz]

In a message dated 10/14/02 11:01:26 PM Central Daylight Time,
jpehrson@rcn.com writes:

***Thanks, Pauline!

Joseph

Some year ago scientists decided to name certain effects by the person who
was msot notable working with it. Hertz was a German physicist. He did a lot
of research and experimentation with wavelengths, which at whatever speed
had been called cycles per second or cps for short. By using Hertz's name
for this effect, two words were eliminated. And by using Hz one letter was
eliminated. (Scientific articles and books are long enough as it is wthout
any unnecessary extra words or letters!)

Pauline

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In a message dated 10/15/02 9:57:55 AM Central Daylight Time,
znmeb@aracnet.com writes:

> By this definition, “cycle” cannot be defined in terms of mass or length.
> It could have been defined in terms of the vibrational frequency of some
> standard length air column at standard temperature and pressure, I suppose.
>
> Ed Borasky

Hz is defined in length. As a longwave is long and a shortwave is short.
Their frequency determines their length. They are also defined as
waveforms--square, rectangle, triangle, sine, etc.

Hz do have standard lengths as used in radar, AM radio, FM radio, TV,
telemetry, and music pitches--as frequencies, such as 256, or foot lengths,
such as 16', 8', 2 2/3', etc.

Pauline

In-Reply-To: <c8.2e8aff4b.2add903c@aol.com>
> Hz is defined in length. As a longwave is long and a shortwave is
> short.=20
> Their frequency determines their length. They are also defined as=20
> waveforms--square, rectangle, triangle, sine, etc.

No. Whatever Hz are defined in terms of, it isn't length. I'm happy to
think of them as reciprocal seconds, leaving "cycles" dimensionless.
That's consistent with wavelengths being in metres and phase velocities in
metres per second, as well as de Broglie's relations.

This page has no problem calling hertz "units":

http://www.electro-optical.com/unitconv/unitdict/drivd_si.htm

Oh, and here's a nice diagram equating hertz with 1/s

http://www.electro-optical.com/unitconv/unitdict/unit_dict.htm

Radians and steradians are dimensionless units.

> Hz do have standard lengths as used in radar, AM radio, FM radio, TV,=20
> telemetry, and music pitches--as frequencies, such as 256, or foot
> lengths,=
> =20
> such as 16', 8', 2 2/3', etc.

Radio waves have standard lengths for a given frequency because the speed
of light is constant in air (very close to its value in a vacuum, which is
an absolute constant). Musical pitches can't be given a standard length.
The length of a standing wave in a violin string isn't the same as the
length of the resulting wave that travels through air. Frequency is the
correct conserved quantity.

Graham