Tonal vs Modal music

Message: 14
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 23:57:49 +0530
From: Joel Rodrigues <joelrodrigues@mac.com>
Subject: Re: problems with "atonal"

> Jay here
> Well, you've tapped on a hronet's nest of mine, namely, the plethora
of
> misnomers we've adopted as technical musical terms. Among
> whichn: what we
> call an "inversion" isn't that at all, maybe a permutation or
> something,
> but only one of those things is really an upside-down arrangement.
And
> modulation? I believe "modulation" and "Mode" have the same
> root in which
> case, a change of key ain't no modulation. Pick your own from
> there. <grin>
> At 07:06 PM 6/29/02 -0400, you wrote:
>>
>> Everyone seems to be objecting to the word "atonal". . . but
>> what about
>> the word "tonal"?
>>
>> So Western Classical Music before 1910 (and after 1500 or
>> whenever) is the
>> only music written with "tones"?

Well said, Jay !

Modulate and Mode both originate in the Latin 'modus', meaning
measure. So yes, a change of key is not modulation. As for
'inversion', you're right. Permutation is indeed much more
accurate and appropriate. An inversion is but one permutation.

Much of the common use language and theory in music is tainted
by the conception of 12-ED2:1 as the one truth, remarkable
narrowness of mainstream musical thought, and the accumulated
misconceptions and fallacies . Far more complex and larger
issues continue to be routinely fudged to fit into the 12-ED2:1
view of music.

The current common notion of 'tonal music' is flawed by it's
myopic 12-ED2:1, major/minor foundations. In this context
'tonal' is supposed to refer to the tonality of a piece of
music, well all music is inextricably tonal.

Tonality is the relationship between the notes of a scale. A
scale is the set of all the notes in a system of music in an
ascending or descending order. Incidentally, recently there was
argument over what a 'set' is. Mark Gould was right when he
said, 'What else is an ordered sequence of pitches but a set?'.
There's a lot of nonsense out there about a supposed, 'pre-tonal
period' in music.

- Joel
_____________________________________________________

Jay and Joel,

Until I read this exchange between the two of you I was feeling like a moron on musical concepts and the associated terms. As a pedestrian I welcome the simple argument "..., well all music is inextricably tonal.". Then could some one, or anyone please explain to me the difference between TONAL music and MODAL music. I would appreciate very much if the discourse could be in a style "for idiots".

Can Akkoc

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--- In tuning@y..., Can Akkoc <can193849@y...> wrote:

> Then could some one, or anyone please explain to me the difference
>between TONAL music and MODAL music. I would appreciate very much if
>the discourse could be in a style "for idiots".

i'm afraid this is not "for idiots", but it's a good starting point --
an article by margo:

http://www.medieval.org/emfaq/misc/modality.html

you will doubtless have many questions about terms and personages
mentioned in this article -- don't be afraid to ask, and if you're
lucky, margo herself will answer!

in the meantime, a good college textbook on the history of western
music should provide a fair overview of the conventional meanings
of "tonal" vs. "modal". . . .