Jesus, lotta stuff

Greetings, I wrote:

> The sustain and clarity can be noticeably altered by discrepancies of .1

to .3 cents, the pitch will need more to actually sound altered.

Dave writes:
>I understand Ed to be saying: The pitch would need to be changed by _more_
than 0.3 >cents to actually sound altered in pitch.

>Is it possible to be more specific than that? Can you put an upper

>bound? What's the smallest mistuning that you can definitely hear

>_as_ a mistuning?

Hmm, that would depend on the interval and its location. Strings and spruce
don't make a great test lab for sensory measurement on this order, there are
a lot of variables. Two notes played on single strings, one after the
other, sound different with a 1 cent change, (on a good day).
I can easily hear a .3 cent distance in a unison in the middle two
octaves of the piano because it changes the phase relationship,(which, I
know, is not the same as pitch discrimination), however, at the top octave,
this is moot.
On a lower bass note, there is often this much difference between the
corresponding partials, so how does one measure? ie, If I find that the best
unison between the bichords on A2 occurs with the 2nd or 3rd partials
matched, I may still find that the fundamentals off by .3 cents, (or the 5th
or 8th etc. may be out that much). The fact that the wound strings are less
consistant than the plain wire, in terms of partial accuracy, means that it
is very difficult to make blanket statements without defining "where" the
inconsistancy occurs. (The synth crowd doesn't have this fuzzy signal to work
with, more the pity)
I cannot hear a .3 cent change in the octave in the middle of the piano,
but if I add that much stretch to say, a 'normal' A-A octave, that .3 cents
begins to accumulate after two or three octaves and I can begin to tell that
my double octaves or triple octaves are cleaner at the expense of the single
on the A's,(if I have say, the adjacent Bb's tuned tighter).
.3 cents difference in an ET fifth is hard to judge than a Just fifth,
but a full 1 cent change is noticeable in either. Thirds don't sound
different with much less than 1 cent or so. I know I can tell the difference
between two of them that have a full cent, especially if one is Just.
However, in the WT's I use so much of , I couldn't tell the difference
between a 20cent third and a full comma one adjacent to it, the pitch
location will change the speed as much as the extra cent.
I hear the difference between the key of F and Bb in a Young
temperament, and that is the difference between an 8 cent tonic third and one
of 10 cents. It is more difficult for me to tell the difference between the
C# and F# keys, even though it is still 2 cents difference in their thirds,
it is the difference between 19 and 21 cents. I suspect that it would be
easier for a musician of Mozart's day, who would have had a more discerning
ear because of the cultural conditioning that was extant at the time. Many
of us have been equally poisoned during our growth and it does take a little
effort to grasp the finer hues, sometimes.
There is much to be learned about the discrimination boundaries between
the keys, but I am still mainly involved in getting people to hear that there
CAN be a difference, if they will only unhook that 12ET I.V. from their
emotional vein and let themselves become sensitized to the colors.
Regards,
Ed Foote
Nashville, Tn.