Re: [tuning] Digest Number 2089

Hello Paul!
You know the answers to these questions already. Listen if you people want to be fascist about your closed systems go ahead. I am afraid you lack the artistic insight to see why i do what i do.
The bottom line i listen to Ets and i don't like them.
Years before i met Erv i had visited Ivor Derrig on more than one occasion, I hate to tell you it left me with a great desire NOT to have anything to do Microtones in any form.

>
>
>
> > Hello Graham!
> > As someone who works with acoustic instruments, Gene's
> suggestion is impractical.
>
> in friendship, let me ask you:
>
>

612 ET pitches is too many to tune. dah

> how do you go about tuning your instruments?

motorola Scalatron (which his based on a subharmonic series)

>
> > I could go on and spend my life exploring ETs for ever and not have
> >a chance to do any music. No, it is best to abandon a road when it
> >appears you have made a mistake.
>
> fair enough a decision for you to make -- but continuing in the
> spirit of fairness:

People telling me to think like them is not in any form of fairness. Every ET is really nothing more than a chain of some ratio. So every time an ET is mentioned i will refer to it as the closest one my calculator will find. This is really really wasteful

>
>
> >With any ET you have a closed system, with JI, one can always add
> >tones or use a few common tones to go to another different pitch
> >array. The idea of locking myself in any prison consciously is not
> >appealing.
>
> you've failed to grasp the meat of gene's all too brief description,
> as anyone who hasn't been following along on tuning-math probably
> would have.

This is an elitist stance.

> the importance was not in the equal temperament. a good
> variety of regular but open systems (linear, planar) would accomplish
> the same thing. even some irregular systems could, one might argue.
>
> but either way, given that you're using instruments with far fewer
> than 612 pitches per octave anyway, the whole point would seem to be
> moot. the prison analogy would, even in a 612-equal tuning of the
> scale in question, seem to rely on an extramusical association.

The idea of 612 is an extramusical Idea- no one uses it

>
>
> > BTW the thing that made 31 unbearable were the wholetones,
>
> yes i understand that. personally, i feel i can safely generalize
> that many of us are spoiled by the really nice 9:4 that 12-equal
> provides, are used to composing with it in certain ways, and will not
> accept that interval being pushed so much further from its pure
> tuning. culture indeed has powerful effects on us!

the simple 9/8

>
>
> >meantone is unfortunately probably out for me. Although i will be
> >putting the score up of a chord piece in just such an animal.
>
> cool -- looking forward to it!
>
>

-- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria island
http://www.anaphoria.com

The Wandering Medicine Show
Wed. 8-9 KXLU 88.9 fm

--- In tuning@y..., Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@a...> wrote:

> Hello Paul!
> You know the answers to these questions already. Listen if you
>people want to be fascist about your closed systems go ahead.

ha ha ha ha! (see previous post re closed systems)

it seems to be so fashionable these days to cover one's own closed-
mindedness with screams of "racist" and "fascist". like a previous
poster, i'd like to invite you to visit with me for a while and
determine for yourself whether there's anything about the way i live
my life that could be remotely called "fascist". i'm grinning widely
right now -- come on, let's be friends!

> 612 ET pitches is too many to tune. dah

612 pitches? there were only 8 or so pitches in that scale!

> > how do you go about tuning your instruments?

> motorola Scalatron (which his based on a subharmonic series)

you could easily program these 8 pitches into your tuner if you so
desired -- which you obviously don't. but either way, tuning 612
pitches is completely besides the point.

> Every ET is really nothing more than a chain of some ratio. So
>every time an ET is mentioned i will refer to it as the closest one
>my calculator will find. This is really really wasteful

and misses the point.

> > you've failed to grasp the meat of gene's all too brief
description,
> > as anyone who hasn't been following along on tuning-math probably
> > would have.
>
> This is an elitist stance.

would it be elitist of you to suggest that i couldn't follow some
subject from a forum that you've been deeply and directly involved in
and you hadn't? please -- no one's omniscient here!

> > the importance was not in the equal temperament. a good
> > variety of regular but open systems (linear, planar) would
accomplish
> > the same thing. even some irregular systems could, one might
argue.
> >
> > but either way, given that you're using instruments with far fewer
> > than 612 pitches per octave anyway, the whole point would seem to
be
> > moot. the prison analogy would, even in a 612-equal tuning of the
> > scale in question, seem to rely on an extramusical association.
>
> The idea of 612 is an extramusical Idea- no one uses it

given gene's prior efforts with MIDI composition, i bet gene will
compose a piece in the 8-tone (or was it 9 or 10) scale in question.
it might be tuned in 612-equal, but it will not be extramusical.
well, as a MIDI composition in gene's style, you'll hate the way it
sounds, no doubt, but it will demonstrate the point, one that could
certainly be exploited by John Doe's more musical pair of hands . . .

> >
> > > BTW the thing that made 31 unbearable were the wholetones,
> >
> > yes i understand that. personally, i feel i can safely generalize
> > that many of us are spoiled by the really nice 9:4 that 12-equal
> > provides, are used to composing with it in certain ways, and will
not
> > accept that interval being pushed so much further from its pure
> > tuning. culture indeed has powerful effects on us!
>
> the simple 9/8

yes, i got that, kraig.

if you ever want to visit my "fascist" environs (actually cambridge
ma is about as left-wing as berkeley ca), i'll pay half your airfare,
and you can stay on my futon for as long as you want. i'll stir your
soul with music -- that's a promise, made with 100% confidence. and
with warm friendship and great company too -- 110% on that one. i
admire what you've done and you don't feel that way about me. fair
enough! but there's no reason to keep putting this other face, which
you obviously have some justifiable negative feelings toward, on me.
it's not me -- i'm your friend!

--- In tuning@y..., "emotionaljourney22" <paul@s...> wrote:

> 612 pitches? there were only 8 or so pitches in that scale!

Ten--which means it is still quite feasible for anyone who can tune that precisely. And if they can't, what's the beef?

> would it be elitist of you to suggest that i couldn't follow some
> subject from a forum that you've been deeply and directly involved in
> and you hadn't? please -- no one's omniscient here!

Kraig's already told you that you lack the musical insight to appreciate what he does, so the elitist comment is a non-starter.

> given gene's prior efforts with MIDI composition, i bet gene will
> compose a piece in the 8-tone (or was it 9 or 10) scale in question.

It's something I'm thinking about, as a matter of fact. The problem with microtemperaments is that the people who one would think would be *most* interested in them, namely the ones who find coarser temperaments too far out of tune, are the very ones who see red and become agitated when the possibility is raised. It makes it an answer to a question many people don't want asked, so I think plunging into the water myself might be just the thing.

> it might be tuned in 612-equal, but it will not be extramusical.
> well, as a MIDI composition in gene's style, you'll hate the way it
> sounds, no doubt, but it will demonstrate the point, one that could
> certainly be exploited by John Doe's more musical pair of hands . . .

I admit it, my music is a little old-fashioned in some ways. Chords, melody, harmony, and all that sort of thing. I figure if you are going to optimize for harmony, you may as well put it to use. If Kraig wants to see if he hates my stuff, he's welcome to take a look
at www.mp3.com/Gene_Ward_Smith. It may not be the kind of music he likes, but it clearly isn't a bunch of paper formulas either.