Pitch dynamics sofware! Help!

Dear Carl Lunma,

There are actually soundboards and equipment that
samples in 196MHz from 16 to 32 bits (I do not
understand the term PCM but I guess that also applies
to this equipment)

So it seem a waste of money to buy the kyma just so
process pitch and volume dynamics when is not even
giving me the sampling rate that I am looking for.

On the other hand I might be looking at the wrong
sampling rate, but spending 100 or 200 dollars extra
for a 196KHz sampling rate soundcard is not a big
mistake. Spending 3.000 dollars for an equipment that
can process process pitch and volume dynamics might be
a big mistake when there might be some SOFTWARE
availabe that might allow me to do it with my
soundcard for PC.

ANY SUGGESTIONS????

#Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 21:21:09 -0700
# From: Carl Lumma <carl@lumma.org>
#Subject: re: Mellograph
#
# >*So far I can tell you what I know, which is the
Kyma
#>software, but unfortunately this only deals with
# >100KHz of sampling rate which is far behind from
the
# >SACD quality (196KHz) which is what I am looking
#for.
#Jose,
#SACD uses 1-bit delta-sigma samples, at a rate which
I
#remember as being higher than 196KHz., but which are
#anyway not comparable rate-for-rate to traditional
#16-or-more-bit PCM samples. It's debatable, and
#somewhat
#academic, whether SACD is better than 96KHz PCM.
#
#Being fully programmable, Kyma should be able to do
#all
#of the things you asked for; I don't know if it does
#them
#out of the box.
#
#-Carl
#Garberville, California.

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In-Reply-To: <20020509092254.578.qmail@web21307.mail.yahoo.com>
Jose Antonio Martin Salinas wrote:

> On the other hand I might be looking at the wrong
> sampling rate, but spending 100 or 200 dollars extra
> for a 196KHz sampling rate soundcard is not a big
> mistake. Spending 3.000 dollars for an equipment that
> can process process pitch and volume dynamics might be
> a big mistake when there might be some SOFTWARE
> availabe that might allow me to do it with my
> soundcard for PC.

You can't do much processing at 96kHz with a $3000 Kyma system anyway.
You should budget for a few expansion cards. If you want to do it in real
time in software, you'll need to budget for multiple processors, which
will probably work out cheaper, but more than the $200 extra for a
different soundcard. You'll need at least double the processor power and
double the RAM if you double the sampling rate. The cost and
specifications of the Kyma hardware haven't changed for a couple of years,
so they are behind PCs. But I don't know of any other system that can do
what Kyma does. You could probably do it in CSound but not in real time.

You said above you don't know what "PCM" means, so how do you know you
need 196 kHz of it? I can't hear any improvement over 64 kHz even with
distortion, where subharmonics might be important. Until you definitely
know you need these astronomical bitrates, assume you'll be processing in
48kHz and interpolating if you need to deliver in 96kHz equivalent. You
won't be able to hear the difference. To be able to recognize enough
partials to do spectral processing that does 48kHz justice, you already
need a huge amount of processor power.

Your requirements before were

"""
3)Is there a software that allows you to apply the the
pitch dynamic (in any format) of a prerecorded sound
to a sustained pitch prerecorded sound? Can you draw
the graph yourself?

4)Is there a software that allowas you to apply the
volume dynamic (in any format) of a prerecorded to a
constant volume prerecorded sound? Can you draw the
graph yourself?
"""

You can do this reasonably well in a base Kyma system at 44 or 48 kHz.
I'm not sure how you do the graphs, but it must be possible. If the files
already have a constant pitch, and the pitch dynamic you want to apply has
already been calculated, you might be able to do the pitch shifting in
real time at 96kHz on a base system. But if real time isn't a problem
neither is the sample rate. You can label the 196 kHz files as 32kHz and
run them through Kyma. Then label the output as 196 kHz.

A 196 kHz soundcard might be useful if you're recording acoustic sources
and you want them in 96kHz quality. You can record them at 196 kHz, apply
a digital filter and downsample. But I've never seen any evidence that
you get audibly better results than recording at 96kHz with an analog
filter. You'll probably need specialist microphones as well. If you're
expected to preserve that level of quality, you should expect to spend a
huge amount of money, so don't worry about the $3000 for Kyma.

Graham

Jose,

>There are actually soundboards and equipment that
>samples in 196MHz from 16 to 32 bits (I do not
>understand the term PCM but I guess that also applies
>to this equipment)

PCM stands for Pulse Code Modulation. It's the
standard way of sampling. 196*M*Hz? Or KHz?
Even if KHz., that's quite high. What do you plan
to do with it?

>So it seem a waste of money to buy the kyma just so
>process pitch and volume dynamics when is not even
>giving me the sampling rate that I am looking for.

Sure. Anything that does 196KHz at 32bits isn't
going to be cheap, though.

-Carl