Ok, let's talk about me now...

Hi, I recently joined this list for the purpose of offering and
receiving inspiration and edification. I was actually a non-
contributing member for about six months back in 1999, though the
amount of time I had to devote to reading and following the posts was
not enough for me to feel I could benefit from it. Now I'm back for
another round.

My name is Stephen Golovnin, and I live in sunny Seattle. Many
people on this list may know me by my previous last name, Smith.

I spent the majority of my early life in Hollywood and Glendale,
though it was only on a trip home from college that I hooked up with
Ivor Darreg and Erv Wilson, back in the late 70's. It was through
Erv's guidance that I started building microtonal instruments at that
time. I was fascinated by the possibilities that arose from these
instruments. I built several stringed and marimba type instruments
during the 80's. Also during the late 70's, I worked for Serge
Tcherepnin building synthesizers for Serge Modular Music Systems.

I left the world of microtonality during the 80's because I
found myself out of balance between the intellectual theory and the
compellingness that music has to offer. I studied with master
musician Dumisani Maraire from Zimbabwe and played in many marimba
ensembles over the next 20 years. This definitely filled that
craving in me for a compelling music to involve myself in. I also
worked with the traditional mbira, and eventually with tuning
schemes. During that time, I built many marimbas and started tuning
them in a simple just intonation (C major scale). Pretty soon
everyone was using this system. Nowadays, there are 40 or 50 marimba
ensembles around the U.S. and Canada, most of them using this Just
Intonation.

Later work included a stint with the Balinese Gamelan Ensemble
based out of Denver called Tunas Mekar. Somewhere in the midst of
all that, I fell in love with the piano, even with its 12ET. (Ivor
must be rolling over in his grave as I write this...)

So nowadays, I am working with the piano, steel stringed and
nylon stringed guitars (tuned in 5ths), marimbas, mbiras, and various
electronics.

A few days ago I came across Margo's post on her relationship
with 11ET. I found myself immediately drawn to her description of it
that I ran over to my keyboard and retuned it to 11ET and played it
through the evening, using a variety of timbres. This to me, is
where the music either speaks to me, or doesn't.

Though I am fairly well versed in the language that surrounds
tuning, I am not a high level mathematician. Sometimes, when I hear
someone speak of something that I know little about, I am inspired to
learn more about it. Other times (and usually when the writer has
little or no emotional connection to their subject), I think to
myself, "what is there in this?"

"That's enough about me, let's talk about you now... What do YOU
think about me...?" Bette Midler

SVG

Stephen!

--- In tuning@y..., "Vsyevolod" <vsyevolod@y...> wrote:
> "That's enough about me, let's talk about you now... What do YOU
> think about me...?"

I love it! Well, glad to have you, for your varied background and attachments to tuning. I had a question:

> ...I live in sunny Seattle... I studied with master musician
> Dumisani Maraire from Zimbabwe and played in many marimba
> ensembles over the next 20 years.

In 1980, while on a West Coast tour with the Harry Partch Ensemble, we played in Seattle at the U. Danlee Mitchell had had previous contact with Dumisani (unless I am totally screwed up) and the bunch of us hung out at a house one night while the marimbe ensemble had a rehearsal. It was a completely rocking evening, full of music and good fellowship. Is it possible you were there?

> A few days ago I came across Margo's post on her relationship
> with 11ET. I found myself immediately drawn to her description
> of it that I ran over to my keyboard and retuned it to 11ET and
> played it through the evening, using a variety of timbres. This
> to me, is where the music either speaks to me, or doesn't.

You aren't alone in these sentiments!

> Other times (and usually when the writer has little or no emotional
> connection to their subject), I think to myself, "what is there in
> this?"

Yes, it is not always easy to see why all the fuss about some of the subjects. I *try* to understand what is compelling to others, but often simply wait for other things to move me. But the list contains plenty to feed both (and more) needs.

Just to be sure, there are two split-off lists that work as yin/yang: if you like the math, you can go to tuning math:

/tuning-math/

...or if you like to actively make music, you can also check out Making Microtonal Music:

/makemicromusic/

Each list has its own particular flavor and spin, and if you have specific needs that fit one of these two topics, you can pop in there for a visit.

Thanks for the introduction!

Cheers,
Jon

--- In tuning@y..., "jonszanto" <JSZANTO@A...> wrote:

> In 1980, while on a West Coast tour with the Harry Partch Ensemble,
we played in Seattle at the U. Danlee Mitchell had had previous
contact with Dumisani (unless I am totally screwed up) and the bunch
of us hung out at a house one night while the marimbe ensemble had a
rehearsal. It was a completely rocking evening, full of music and
good fellowship. Is it possible you were there?

Yes, I was the one who set up that meeting. I had met Danlee
several years before that and this was for me a meeting of two vastly
different approaches to marimba music. Both of which I held (and
still hold) and great reverance for.

BTW, that was 1982.

> Just to be sure, there are two split-off lists that work as
yin/yang: if you like the math, you can go to tuning math:
>
> /tuning-math/
>
> ...or if you like to actively make music, you can also check out
Making Microtonal Music:
>
> /makemicromusic/
>
> Each list has its own particular flavor and spin, and if you have
specific needs that fit one of these two topics, you can pop in there
for a visit.

Ok, so there is a list for the math heads (I poked my head in
there, it all looked Geek to me...) and one where people are nice to
each other and talk about the making of microtonal music... so my
question is what is this list here for? Does this tuning list serve
a different purpose than either of the other two? Perhaps a place
where you can talk about math AND composition AND be rude to each
other? :) Someone 'splain me please.

SVG

--- In tuning@y..., "Vsyevolod" <vsyevolod@y...> wrote:
>Yes, I was the one who set up that meeting.

Incredible!!! How amazing is this coincidence of meeting here?

> Both of which I held (and still hold) and great reverance for.

Yep: lots of great music is both different (from each other) and valid.

> BTW, that was 1982.

I should have remembered: it was the first long trip away from my future wife, and we started dating in late 81. I think we were in Seattle in January, because the rainstorm driving from Portland was hellacious (and there was snow on the Siskiyou Pass in No. Cal.)

But I'm getting personal...
> Does this tuning list serve a different purpose than either of the other two?

Well, this list *originally* had a wide variety of topics, but has slowly ground to a place that centers around the theories of tuning. Not so much the details (because they got chased off to tuning-math by practicing musicians who complained and whined), and not so much the application (because the practicing musicians got ridiculed into Making Microtonal Music by the mathematicians and theorists who found putting tuning to use in music pedantic and passe).

> Perhaps a place where you can talk about math AND composition AND
> be rude to each other? :) Someone 'splain me please.

Oh, *that*. Well, that still goes on here. You'll probably see someone being rude to me sometime after this post...

(All kidding aside, you might want to go back through the message base on those two sub-lists a bit to see if anything strikes your fancy. And nothing will give you an idea of the makeup of the list then if you post a couple of pretty well-focused questions, with maybe some background too. May not get an answer immediately, but hopefully eventually).

And the lists have been a tad quiet lately, anyway...

Well, great to know we have a past, you and I!

Cheers,
Jon

(P.S. Be sure to visit Partch's home on the web, Corporeal Meadows -
http://www.corporeal.com/ - if you haven't already)

--- In tuning@y..., "Vsyevolod" <vsyevolod@y...> wrote:

> My name is Stephen Golovnin, and I live in sunny Seattle. Many
> people on this list may know me by my previous last name, Smith.

What a good idea! My great-gradfather changed his name from Svensen at Ellis Island; maybe I should change it back.

> A few days ago I came across Margo's post on her relationship
> with 11ET. I found myself immediately drawn to her description of it
> that I ran over to my keyboard and retuned it to 11ET and played it
> through the evening, using a variety of timbres. This to me, is
> where the music either speaks to me, or doesn't.

So what was the verdict?

Anyway, welcome aboard.

--- In tuning@y..., "genewardsmith" <genewardsmith@j...> wrote:
> --- In tuning@y..., "Vsyevolod" <vsyevolod@y...> wrote:
>
> > ...I ran over to my keyboard and retuned it to 11ET and played it
> > through the evening, using a variety of timbres. This to me, is
> > where the music either speaks to me, or doesn't.
>
> So what was the verdict?

Gene,

Well for starters, "verdict" is perhaps too strong of a word to
apply here (is the scale guilty or innocent?). Suffice to say that I
have worked with this tuning for several hours over the last few
days. Several questions came up for me which I will attempt to
formulate here.

Margo spoke of this tuning as being a 6 note scale derived from
the 11 ET series. First of all, what does 11-EDO refer to?

I tuned my keyboard as she suggested, using scale degrees 0-2-4-
6-8-9-11/0, with F=0. To make things easier on myself, I also tuned
adjacent notes to this same scale, thus F and F# became 0, G and G#
became 2, etc. Thus I could let my fingers fly without fear of
hitting a note outside of the scale. If I stayed on the white keys,
then B and C were duplicates of each other.

My second question is concerning modes. Given the above scale,
why would one be specifically drawn to the above mode (as opposed to
using the same scale starting on a different scale step)? And was
there any reason that F was chosen as a starting point?

In hours of improvising and searching through various timbres, I
found different tonal centers to have vastly different affects. With
the center on E (9th degree), the 8 to 9 relationship takes on a
leading tone flavor. Tonal center on A (4th degree) gives it a
Mixolydian flavor, with my ear hearing a major third/perfect fourth
relationship between 8 and 9. My favorite is currently centered on D.

I remember having a conversation with my good friend Andrew
Tracey, who is a leading South African ethnomusicologist. He
observed that most westerners, upon hearing a xenharmonic African
scale, will automatically try to hear it in relation to either
familiar intervals in the 12 ET scale, or Just intervals.
Remembering this, I attempted to remove my cultural bias from the
picture (close to impossible, though the efforts are rewarding), and
tried to allow the intervals speak for themselves. My experience of
the scale slowly shifted for periods of time, before my mind kicked
in and demanded to "order" the experience.

I found that many different timbres worked well with this scale,
though some of them changed the experience dramatically. A Hammond
B3 sound was especially effective, while the timbres with non
harmonic partials gave yet another view. Though I've never read Bill
Sethares's work, the ideas he writes about have informed much of my
own thoughts about the evolution of scales. Of course with the
advent of electronics and so many new sounds and scales available to
us, the "rules" kinda get shifted around a bit.

I liked the recent posting of the "gamelan" piece, both with the
partial content shifted to reflect 11 ET and the partials shifted to
odd harmonics. Both worked for me and the comment that these
different timbres could even be combined in the same piece really
opens some new doors that I wouldn't have easily come to via rational
thinking. So I opened both of these "gamelan" pieces in two separate
windows (running quicktime), and played them simultaneously. That
was my favorite. I wouldn't have even thought of doing that if
someone hadn't mentioned the possibility.

Anyway, that gives you a bit of an insight into the inner
workings of this head of mine. Hope it makes some sense to you.

SVG