Yahoo Tuning Groups Ultimate Backup tuning Effects of sound on consciousness

Paul H. Erlich [TD221.15]

>Azrael wrote me off-list:
> I am addresses the
> effects of sound on consciousness.

>If you are interested in "mystical" (what I would consider unscientific)
>approaches, read Danielou's _Introduction to the Study of Musical Scales_
>and Levarie and Levy's book (can't remember the name -- not listed in the
>_Tuning & temperament bibliography_). If you are interested in scientific
>approaches, start with Hall's _Musical Acoustics_ (there are a few chapters
>on psychoacoustics and tuning) and follow the references to books and
>journal articles from there.

I know nothing about any work done by anyone else on this subject but
have had occasion to think about and study such questions from my own
perspective of developing the harmonics theory and how the whole
universe works and in particular life. So the following rave is a bit
about my theory but aimed at coming around to the question raised.

IMO the universe began as a single very low frequency note, being the
fundamental oscillation mode of the universe or something like that.
Because the universe has a non-linear equation (this is compatible with
GR) any such oscillation MUST develop harmonics. Because the structure
is 3D these harmonics also form centres at which energy is concentrated.
This concentration highlights the non-linearity at the new frequencies
and these also develop harmonics. This leads to the development of ever
higher frequencies so that eventually waves form which have wavelengths
that match the distances between galaxies, stars, planets and eventually
atoms and nucleons. There is nothing but waves.

Along the way some of these waves become very stable and long-lived and
some develop means of duplicating themselves and we call these "life".
In the distant past the most energy was in larger waves but is now in
the nuclear waves throughout most of the universe. So in the past any
living things would have been much larger (the time of giants) and now
these structures might still exist but they are composed of longer
wavelengths and hence lower energies (according to Planck's law).
The result is that these energies are not readily observable by science
because they are too subtle compared to the chemical and nuclear
energies observed on earth. Therefore they are what might be called
spirits or Gods. These come in many shapes and sizes and may be
galactic Gods, Solar Gods, Planetary Gods or Devas of smaller areas.

The oscillations associated with these larger entities are detectable
but have not generally been recognised for what they are. Some examples
are the 7.5 Hz electromagnetic Schumann resonance and the 84 minutes
gravitational oscillation of the earth (equal to the orbital period of a
satellite at ground level). The ratio between these two periods is
37800 which is close to (and probably related to) my common 34560 ratio
between levels of structure in the universe. It is also equal to the
ratio between the electron Compton frequency and the prime mode of the
electrons orbits as defined by the Rydberg constant. Alternatively this
is equal to the expression 2*137.036^2 where 1/137.036 is the fine
structure constant. Why should the Earth show this same ratio as
present in very much faster oscillations? Answer, because the
dimensions and mass of the earth are not random but cosmically
determined.

The period of about 84 minutes is also found in many other places in the
solar system. The outer planets are at distances from the sun that are
very near multiples of 82 light minutes. The sun has a 160 minute
oscillation. The other planets (except Mars) have surface orbital
periods of near 84, 168 or 252 minutes, all multiples of 84 minutes.

The inner planets are near multiples of 3 light minutes from the Sun and
again the sun has an oscillation of about 5.5 minutes or near double
that (the double is because each wave has two nodes). So the periods of
~160, ~80, ~6 and ~3 minutes are all around us.

The waves in the sea mostly have intervals of ~13 seconds in the surf
and ~6.5 and ~3.25 seconds in harbours. Periods of 26, 51 and 102
seconds are also found as wave groupings. Wave sizes also show clear
variations over 3, 6 and 12 minutes and 20 and 40 minute very large
groupings are visible from satellite photos. Surfies know that super
waves come at 20 minute intervals.

All of this is given to show that we live in a set of musically related
waves that inundate everything. Anyone that wants to understand how
music can touch the soul will find it useful to understand the
environment in which the soul developed. The periods above are very
deep in our being and we have activity cycles throughout the day and
night (e.g. 90 minute sleep cycle) that are probably related to these
cosmic forces.

Today there are people who are scientifically studying the mystical and
these connections are beginning to be made. The musical masters of the
past knew that they got their music from the cosmos or God or whatever
anyone wants to call it. They tuned in to the subtle waves that pervade
all space and time.

The ancients knew something about this too and made large structures
which have proportions and sizes which reverberate to sounds at
frequencies that match the cosmic energies. Celts, Egyptians, Greeks,
Chinese and Indians.

The keys such as F, C and G are the ones that contain the notes that are
the ones that dominate the cosmic vibrations most of the time which is
why they were chosen as the white notes. However I believe that the
correct present frequency for A is nearer to 450 Hz rather than 440 Hz
although it probably varies a bit with time also.

Again, rhythms should match keys in being related musically (when the
BPM is considered as a low frequency note) and both should be related to
the size of the dimensions of cathedrals etc which should be (and
probably were) related to the natural frequencies for sound and
dimensions in nature. In my experience structures from neolithic sites
all over Europe show common units which are close to the modern imperial
units.

The human body is also a cathedral. Its oscillation modes have
eigenstates which lead to certain energy centres and conduits which are
called chakras, ki, and other names by eastern people who understood
these things once long ago. These frequencies are related to the
Schumann resonance and the other natural oscillations. If you want to
reach the consciousness then playing the human instruments emotional
centres will reach as deep as is possible to go. The large scale
structure of music including shape and repeats will reach deeper into
the soul if it matches the longer periods that I have mentioned.

The main periods may be considered to be musically / harmonically
related as follows:

162 81 40.5 20.3 minutes outer planets
> ratio 7
23.1 11.6 5.8 2.9 minutes inner planets

20.3 minutes / 12 = 101.5 seconds

102 51 25.5 12.8 6.4 3.2 seconds waves in ocean / sea
8.5

probable connection 2.9 minutes / 12 / 12 / 9 = 0.134 seconds => 7.45 Hz

ratio 24 27 30 32 36 40 45 48
freq. 179 201 224 238 268 298 335 358 Hz earth oscillation
note F G A Bb C D E F

so that the scale of F is strongly related to the earth resonance.

-- Ray Tomes -- http://www.kcbbs.gen.nz/users/rtomes/rt-home.htm --
Cycles email list -- http://www.kcbbs.gen.nz/users/af/cyc.htm
Alexandria eGroup list -- http://www.kcbbs.gen.nz/users/af/alex.htm
Boundaries of Science http://www.kcbbs.gen.nz/users/af/scienceb.htm

🔗Patrick Pagano <ppagano@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx>

🔗Dale Scott <adelscot@xxx.xxxx>

Ray,

Wow, this is most fascinating. How long have you been thinking about stuff like this?
The practice of arithmetical/musical cosmology goes back to ancient times, of course.
One author who treats this subject from an anthropological perspective is Ernest G.
McClain; I'd highly recommend his books _The Myth of Invariance_ and _The Pythagorean
Plato_. Until you find those, check out a netization of his article "Music Theory and Ancient
Cosmology" at
http://members.aol.com/markalex9/Reviews/mcclain.html

For anyone wanting more of a general (although fairly non-technical) introduction to the topic,
take a look at _Harmonies of Heaven and Earth_ by Joscelyn Godwin. It includes info on
thinkers including, but not limited to, Plato, Ptolemy, Werckmeister, Robert Fludd, Marius
Schneider, Gurdjieff, and, most notably, Kepler. Although the information given is sometimes
pretty sketchy, the bibliography refers the reader to some good primary and secondary sources.

Dale Scott
----------
> From: rtomes@kcbbs.gen.nz (Ray Tomes)
>
> Paul H. Erlich [TD221.15]
>
> >Azrael wrote me off-list:
> > I am addresses the
> > effects of sound on consciousness.
>
> >If you are interested in "mystical" (what I would consider unscientific)
> >approaches, read Danielou's _Introduction to the Study of Musical Scales_
> >and Levarie and Levy's book (can't remember the name -- not listed in the
> >_Tuning & temperament bibliography_). If you are interested in scientific
> >approaches, start with Hall's _Musical Acoustics_ (there are a few chapters
> >on psychoacoustics and tuning) and follow the references to books and
> >journal articles from there.
>
> I know nothing about any work done by anyone else on this subject but
> have had occasion to think about and study such questions from my own
> perspective of developing the harmonics theory and how the whole
> universe works and in particular life. So the following rave is a bit
> about my theory but aimed at coming around to the question raised.
>
> IMO the universe began as a single very low frequency note, being the
> fundamental oscillation mode of the universe or something like that.
> Because the universe has a non-linear equation (this is compatible with
> GR) any such oscillation MUST develop harmonics. Because the structure
> is 3D these harmonics also form centres at which energy is concentrated.
> This concentration highlights the non-linearity at the new frequencies
> and these also develop harmonics. This leads to the development of ever
> higher frequencies so that eventually waves form which have wavelengths
> that match the distances between galaxies, stars, planets and eventually
> atoms and nucleons. There is nothing but waves.
>
> Along the way some of these waves become very stable and long-lived and
> some develop means of duplicating themselves and we call these "life".
> In the distant past the most energy was in larger waves but is now in
> the nuclear waves throughout most of the universe. So in the past any
> living things would have been much larger (the time of giants) and now
> these structures might still exist but they are composed of longer
> wavelengths and hence lower energies (according to Planck's law).
> The result is that these energies are not readily observable by science
> because they are too subtle compared to the chemical and nuclear
> energies observed on earth. Therefore they are what might be called
> spirits or Gods. These come in many shapes and sizes and may be
> galactic Gods, Solar Gods, Planetary Gods or Devas of smaller areas.
>
> The oscillations associated with these larger entities are detectable
> but have not generally been recognised for what they are. Some examples
> are the 7.5 Hz electromagnetic Schumann resonance and the 84 minutes
> gravitational oscillation of the earth (equal to the orbital period of a
> satellite at ground level). The ratio between these two periods is
> 37800 which is close to (and probably related to) my common 34560 ratio
> between levels of structure in the universe. It is also equal to the
> ratio between the electron Compton frequency and the prime mode of the
> electrons orbits as defined by the Rydberg constant. Alternatively this
> is equal to the expression 2*137.036^2 where 1/137.036 is the fine
> structure constant. Why should the Earth show this same ratio as
> present in very much faster oscillations? Answer, because the
> dimensions and mass of the earth are not random but cosmically
> determined.
>
> The period of about 84 minutes is also found in many other places in the
> solar system. The outer planets are at distances from the sun that are
> very near multiples of 82 light minutes. The sun has a 160 minute
> oscillation. The other planets (except Mars) have surface orbital
> periods of near 84, 168 or 252 minutes, all multiples of 84 minutes.
>
> The inner planets are near multiples of 3 light minutes from the Sun and
> again the sun has an oscillation of about 5.5 minutes or near double
> that (the double is because each wave has two nodes). So the periods of
> ~160, ~80, ~6 and ~3 minutes are all around us.
>
> The waves in the sea mostly have intervals of ~13 seconds in the surf
> and ~6.5 and ~3.25 seconds in harbours. Periods of 26, 51 and 102
> seconds are also found as wave groupings. Wave sizes also show clear
> variations over 3, 6 and 12 minutes and 20 and 40 minute very large
> groupings are visible from satellite photos. Surfies know that super
> waves come at 20 minute intervals.
>
> All of this is given to show that we live in a set of musically related
> waves that inundate everything. Anyone that wants to understand how
> music can touch the soul will find it useful to understand the
> environment in which the soul developed. The periods above are very
> deep in our being and we have activity cycles throughout the day and
> night (e.g. 90 minute sleep cycle) that are probably related to these
> cosmic forces.
>
> Today there are people who are scientifically studying the mystical and
> these connections are beginning to be made. The musical masters of the
> past knew that they got their music from the cosmos or God or whatever
> anyone wants to call it. They tuned in to the subtle waves that pervade
> all space and time.
>
> The ancients knew something about this too and made large structures
> which have proportions and sizes which reverberate to sounds at
> frequencies that match the cosmic energies. Celts, Egyptians, Greeks,
> Chinese and Indians.
>
> The keys such as F, C and G are the ones that contain the notes that are
> the ones that dominate the cosmic vibrations most of the time which is
> why they were chosen as the white notes. However I believe that the
> correct present frequency for A is nearer to 450 Hz rather than 440 Hz
> although it probably varies a bit with time also.
>
> Again, rhythms should match keys in being related musically (when the
> BPM is considered as a low frequency note) and both should be related to
> the size of the dimensions of cathedrals etc which should be (and
> probably were) related to the natural frequencies for sound and
> dimensions in nature. In my experience structures from neolithic sites
> all over Europe show common units which are close to the modern imperial
> units.
>
> The human body is also a cathedral. Its oscillation modes have
> eigenstates which lead to certain energy centres and conduits which are
> called chakras, ki, and other names by eastern people who understood
> these things once long ago. These frequencies are related to the
> Schumann resonance and the other natural oscillations. If you want to
> reach the consciousness then playing the human instruments emotional
> centres will reach as deep as is possible to go. The large scale
> structure of music including shape and repeats will reach deeper into
> the soul if it matches the longer periods that I have mentioned.
>
> The main periods may be considered to be musically / harmonically
> related as follows:
>
> 162 81 40.5 20.3 minutes outer planets
> > ratio 7
> 23.1 11.6 5.8 2.9 minutes inner planets
>
> 20.3 minutes / 12 = 101.5 seconds
>
> 102 51 25.5 12.8 6.4 3.2 seconds waves in ocean / sea
> 8.5
>
> probable connection 2.9 minutes / 12 / 12 / 9 = 0.134 seconds => 7.45 Hz
>
> ratio 24 27 30 32 36 40 45 48
> freq. 179 201 224 238 268 298 335 358 Hz earth oscillation
> note F G A Bb C D E F
>
> so that the scale of F is strongly related to the earth resonance.

🔗rtomes@xxxxx.xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxx)

Dale Scott [TD222.22]

>Wow, this is most fascinating. How long have you been thinking about stuff like this?

Full time for about 15 years, and on and off about as many again.

>The practice of arithmetical/musical cosmology goes back to ancient times, of course.

I had only a vague idea about any ancient stuff until after I did my
own work. Then I found out that lots of it was rediscovery and not
discovery. After I discovered that natural rock formations have almost
all the imperial units (and almost no others) in the range from 1/12" to
2 yards (namely fathom 72", yard 36", cubit 18", span 9", foot 12", 6",
palm 3", hand 4", 2", inch 1", 1/2", barleycorn 1/3", 1/6", line 1/12")
and wrote about this someone told me that pythagoras wrote:

"Are not rocks frozen music?"

The above units are a perfect set of pythagorean relationships and so I
can only assume that Pythagoras knew about this.

The Hindu and Buddhist traditions are full of information about very
long cycles that are harmonically related up to the day (or year?) of
Brahma which is 4,320,000,000 years. I don't agree with the number in
years but the 432 and 4320 digits are strong harmonics.

>For anyone wanting more of a general (although fairly non-technical) introduction to the topic,
>take a look at _Harmonies of Heaven and Earth_ by Joscelyn Godwin.

The title is quite similar to "The Cycles of Heaven" by Guy Lyon
Playfair and Scott Hill. ISBN 0-330-25676-9. Pan books.

>It includes info on
>thinkers including, but not limited to, Plato, Ptolemy, Werckmeister, Robert Fludd, Marius
>Schneider, Gurdjieff, and, most notably, Kepler. Although the information given is sometimes
>pretty sketchy, the bibliography refers the reader to some good primary and secondary sources.

Thanks.

🔗azrael <azrael@jump.net>

🔗monz@juno.com

[Ray Tomes, TD 222.19]
> I ... have had occasion to think about and study such questions
> from my own perspective of developing the harmonics theory and
> how the whole universe works and in particular life. So the
> following rave is a bit about my theory but aimed at coming
> around to the question raised.
>
> IMO the universe began as a single very low frequency note,
> being the fundamental oscillation mode of the universe or
> something like that. Because the universe has a non-linear
> equation (this is compatible with GR) any such oscillation MUST
> develop harmonics. <etc. ...>

[Dale Scott, TD 222.22]
>
> Wow, this is most fascinating.

Exactly what I was thinking as I read it.

What's *most* fascinating to me is that I was already thinking,
before I read Dale's response, of my own response based on a
correspondence *we've* been having!

... Great minds think alike?... :)

Dale and I have been involved in a very interesting exchange
off-list for about two weeks now, about Mahler. (yep,
Mahler again...)

Recently I've been discussing with him the ideas of Gustav Theodor
Fechner, whose work had a profound and lasting effect on Mahler's
thought. I was struck with its relevance to Ray's posting.

Fechner is best known today as the founder of 'psychophysics',
which in a very altered form has become known now as
'physiological psychology'. He was well-known as a physicist
as a younger man, and was instrumental in formulating the
description of correlations between physical and perceptual
differences in stimuli, particularly for sight and hearing.

After a prolonged and very serious illness in his 40s, he recovered
completely, lived another 40 years, and became quite a mystic.

Fechner was a monist, and believed that life and matter were
the same. The implications of this idea are that everything
in the universe is alive and has a soul, or alternatively, is
part of an overall soul.

This resonates (pun intended) quite well with what Ray is saying.

The only book in English that I have been able to find on Fechner
is called _Religion of a Scientist_:

Author Fechner, Gustav Theodor, 1801-1887

Title Religion of a scientist; selections from Gustav Th.
Fechner, edited & translated by Walter Lowrie

Imprint [New York] Pantheon Books [1946]

[selections from the Table of Contents:]
Contents Biography
Introductory:
A Religious Scientist
About Scientists in General
The Darwinian Theory
About Fechner's Religion
Three Motives and Grounds of Faith
Concerning Souls:
Souls of the Stars
The Soul Life of Plants:
Organs of Sense
The Character of Plants
The Questions of Freedom
God and Immortality:
The Daylight View: About God.
Life After Death: Perception and Memory
Confession of Faith:
About Christ
About the Bible
"In God My Soul Reposes"

I know it's off-topic,
but just thought I'd throw my 0.02 Semitones in.

-monz

Joseph L. Monzo monz@juno.com
http://www.ixpres.com/interval/monzo/homepage.html
|"...I had broken thru the lattice barrier..."|
| - Erv Wilson |
--------------------------------------------------

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🔗joel <mango@gelrevision.nl>

🔗Dale Scott <adelscot@xxx.xxxx>

🔗Patrick Pagano <ppagano@bellsouth.net>

I do not feel that the Hindu number 432,000 refers to a harmonic cycle. Kalpa is more of
duration in my mind and the occurences within the duration have harmonicity

Dale Scott wrote:

> From: "Dale Scott" <adelscot@onr.com>
>
> Ray Tomes wrote,
>
> > The Hindu and Buddhist traditions are full of information about very
> > long cycles that are harmonically related up to the day (or year?) of
> > Brahma which is 4,320,000,000 years. I don't agree with the number in
> > years but the 432 and 4320 digits are strong harmonics.
>
> The McClain book which I mentioned, _The Myth of Invariance_, does
> in fact deal largely with such cycles in the ancient Hindu culture. The
> author uses numerical references from the Rg Veda to construct _yantras_--
> 5-limit lattices which fall into a "ziggurat" pattern through the use of a number,
> such as the very large one to which Ray referred, as a limiting index. Other
> similar yantras and tone-mandalas are constructed based on McClain's research
> into the Egyptian, Hebrew, and Babylonian/Sumerian cultures.
>
> If I had to throw my own 1/600 of an octave in about the matter, it would be
> that the age of the universe is some enormous cycle of which all the other
> cycles are divisors. At the moment the universe began, all of the cycles
> started at the same time; the universe would come to an end when all these
> cycles finally reach their completion at the very same moment. Not sure how
> the relativity of time would effect this though. 'Course, I don't necessarily really
> believe in this stuff, but it's fun or even awe-inspiring to speculate about.
>
> And thanks also, Ray, for the info on the Playfair/Hill book.
>
> Dale
>
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