Re: [tuning] Digest Number 1989

On 3/30/02 10:50 AM, "tuning@yahoogroups.com" <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
wrote:

> Message: 7
> Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 06:01:33 -0000
> From: "paulerlich" <paul@stretch-music.com>
> Subject: Re: Digest Number 1987
>
> --- In tuning@y..., Gerald Eskelin <stg3music@e...> wrote:
>> On 3/29/02 7:27 PM, "tuning@y..." <tuning@y...> wrote:
>>
>> Otherwise, the b6 is nothing more than a normal minor flavored "third" in
>> the subdominant function. In this case, the "function" is not dominant,
>> therefore the "tritone" is somewhat a pain in the you-know-what. That's the
>> difference.
>
> i disagree. why have composers throughout the history of tonal music
> been so eager, in a major key, to borrow the *subdominant* from minor?
> because it's a pain? no -- it's the powerful drive of the diminished
> fifth to resolve inward into a third.

Borrowing the *subdominant* from minor is not a pain. The "pain" occurs
because lowering the submediant creates an ambiguous and perhaps misleading
tritone with the supertonic (when it is also sounding). Your "powerful
drive" in this case does not resolve inward into a third. A ii6 chord nearly
always goes to a V chord. The b6 goes to 5 and the 2 skips down to 7. No
functional tritone there!
>
> perhaps we can leave it at
> that (as this is kinda off-topic)?

I agree

--- In tuning@y..., Gerald Eskelin <stg3music@e...> wrote:

> Borrowing the *subdominant* from minor is not a pain. The "pain"
occurs
> because lowering the submediant creates an ambiguous and perhaps
misleading
> tritone with the supertonic (when it is also sounding).
Your "powerful
> drive" in this case does not resolve inward into a third. A ii6
chord nearly
> always goes to a V chord.

i think you'd be surprised as to how often it goes to the I chord.
listen to some bach endings, or some jazz, or what have you. forget
what your music teacher taught you :)

also, the borrowing often takes place in the context of a dominant
chord -- the ninth of the dominant chord is very often flatted, even
in a major key, to take advantage of the powerful drive the 2-b6
tritone has to resolve inward into a third.

> > perhaps we can leave it at
> > that (as this is kinda off-topic)?
>
> I agree

ok then -- any further responses should be directed to metatuning.

-paul