fretless guitars

--- You wrote:
Viger's been making fretless guitars for a while,
but I've never seen one outside of an ad. So Viger
isn't exactly taking the world by storm. I wonder how they sound.
--- end of quote ---
Just to chime in, I've got a beautiful fretless, made by steve marchione, and i've been performing with it a lot over the past year or so. It sounds great, and plays great, though it's of course a very different instrument than its fretted cousin.

lp

Larry Polansky wrote:

> From: Larry.Polansky@Dartmouth.EDU (Larry Polansky)
>
> --- You wrote:
> Viger's been making fretless guitars for a while,
> but I've never seen one outside of an ad. So Viger
> isn't exactly taking the world by storm. I wonder how they sound.
> --- end of quote ---
> Just to chime in, I've got a beautiful fretless, made by steve marchione, and i've been performing with it a lot over the past year or so. It sounds great, and plays great, though it's of course a very different instrument than its fretted cousin.

I've tried Jon Catler's G&L. He bought a G&L with an unslotted neck.
No fret slots - no nut cut. A local luther laid down a couple coats
of epoxy and it plays like a dream. I'd like one but I think
I'm going to get a fretless bass this sumer.

BTW: Simple Harmonic Motion is a great cd, it's even helped me through some bad times!

--
* D a v i d B e a r d s l e y
* xouoxno@virtulink.com
*
* J u x t a p o s i t i o n E z i n e
* M E L A v i r t u a l d r e a m house monitor
*
* http://www.virtulink.com/immp/lookhere.htm

on 11/23/00 3:40 PM, tuning@egroups.com at tuning@egroups.com wrote:

>
>
> If you don't want to go the "have luthier rip out the frets on
> old/cheap guitar route", Fretlessguitar.com sells fretless acoustics
> for $450 and fretless electrics for about $650. The fretless
> electrics include Sustainer circuits, which more than compensates for
> the slightly shorter sustain in comparison to fretted guitars. A
> glass fingerboard option, I was told, is to be offered next year and
> would also be available as a retrofit to current fretless models. I
> have a Fernandes Fretless Native Pro myself and the only thing I
> would change is increase the gauge to .011s to improve the high
> strings' natural sustain and responsiveness to the Sustainer. The
> Sustainer takes longer to activate a .009 high E than the other
> strings.
>
> David B's fretless G&L is a very nice axe indeed. With the epoxy
> coating, his high strings except for the high E have pretty good
> natural sustain on the high notes. .009 E strings are just too thin
> for fretless in my opinion.
>

Hi everyone,

I am reading all these posts from other guitarists with much interest. The
12 tET guitar has been my main instrument for over 30 years, so I have much
interest in playing refretted or fretless guitars. I've been through the
luthier refretting cheap guitars mode a couple of times now, for both 19 and
31 tET fretted guitars. I did some interesting musical experiments with
these instruments, but ultimately, due to the frustrating fact that the
instruments themselves didn't excite me much, I didn't explore microtonality
with them as much as I would've liked. They were useful at least for
learning to correctly play these pitches on my slide guitar, so all was not
wasted.

So here's the problem, I do not play electric guitar at all, I really am an
acoustic player at heart. It appears that there are decent choices out there
for electric players, If I thought I could be happy using one, I'd just buy
the G&L, I know they're good guitars as far as electrics go. But anytime
I've had an electric, no matter how nice (including things such as a Roland
GK-2 synth modified Strat), it just didn't happen for me, the acoustics are
what I gravitate towards. It would sit in the case more often than not, and
eventually I'd sell it.

I am interested in knowing anyones' experience with the acoustic fretless
from fretlessguitar.com or if any one has had any luck making a good
fretless acoustic by pulling the frets from an existing acoustic guitar. I
really want to end up with a good quality performing instrument, with good
tone, playability, etc. I tend to use alot of open tunings, so resonance of
harmonics on the open strings when I play a just fretted (or stopped) note
properly would be of the utmost importance.

Thanks,

Seth

--
Seth Austen
please visit me on the web at http://www.sethausten.com
email; seth@sethausten.com

Download a song (mp3) at www.mp3.com/sethausten

--- In tuning@egroups.com, Seth Austen <acoustic@l...> wrote:
> I am interested in knowing anyones' experience with the acoustic
fretless
> from fretlessguitar.com or if any one has had any luck making a good
> fretless acoustic by pulling the frets from an existing acoustic
guitar. I
> really want to end up with a good quality performing instrument,
with good
> tone, playability, etc. I tend to use alot of open tunings, so
resonance of
> harmonics on the open strings when I play a just fretted (or
stopped) note
> properly would be of the utmost importance.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Seth

I'm sorry I can't be of much help here. But what I can say is that
Ned Evett, the main endorsee of Fretlessguitar.com, gets a good sound
out of his fretless acoustic guitars. His guitars are all equipped
with glass fingerboards, however, which are not yet offered as an
option on the production guitars. String wear on fingerboards can be
an issue and there are various solutions to it for guitarists. One
is to use Elixir strings, which have coated roundwounds. Another is
to use fingerboards which are made of dense material, to better
withstand string wear. These range from glass to metal. A third is
to have the fingerboard coated with something like epoxy.

Paolo

Forgot to mention yet another fretless guitar choice:

http://www.godinguitars.com/godinglissentarp.htm

This is an electric-acoustic greatly influenced by the oud. I have
no idea what the asking price is.

Paolo

Seth Austen wrote:

> I am interested in knowing anyones' experience with the acoustic fretless
> from fretlessguitar.com or if any one has had any luck making a good
> fretless acoustic by pulling the frets from an existing acoustic guitar.

I pulled the frets out of an old Vox acoustic about 10
years ago as an experiment. The neck was warped and had
no truss rod (!). This was before I really learned the science of JI.
I never did fill in the frets...

> I
> really want to end up with a good quality performing instrument, with good
> tone, playability, etc. I tend to use alot of open tunings, so resonance of
> harmonics on the open strings when I play a just fretted (or stopped) note
> properly would be of the utmost importance.

http://microtones.com (Jon Catler) hasn't produced an acoustic gtr yet
but I know he made a lot of industry connections at NAMM last
Winter. We've talked about it. Contact him at freenote@earthlink.net

Folks like him and Dan Sterns have been doing the fretless & microtonal
thing for
a long time, Ned Evette just slides around by intuition (by his own
admission,
he doesn't know about the mysteries of tunings! Nice guy though.).

Open stings vs. fretted sound cool but open strings vs. fretless?
On my fretless electric the timbre is different but compatible, acoustic
might
be a different story. And an acoustic might not have much sustain
anywayz.
If you want sustain,

nada brahma and out,
db

--
* D a v i d B e a r d s l e y
* 49/32 R a d i o "all microtonal, all the time"
* http://www.virtulink.com/immp/lookhere.htm

phv40@hotmail.com wrote:

> I'm sorry I can't be of much help here. But what I can say is that
> Ned Evett, the main endorsee of Fretlessguitar.com,

Get in touch with reality: He's the owner.

--
* D a v i d B e a r d s l e y
* 49/32 R a d i o "all microtonal, all the time"
* http://www.virtulink.com/immp/lookhere.htm

on 11/25/00 6:50 AM, tuning@egroups.com at tuning@egroups.com wrote:

Thanks to everyone for the feedback (yes, feedback is possible on an
acoustic guitar). I'm quite glad to have found you all on this e-list, I've
been bumbling about almost completely alone in microtuning land for well
over a dozen years, without much contact with other folks doing this, except
by finding and reading things like EMI and 1/1, Partch, buying recordings,
and the two luthiers interested enough in what I was babbling about to
refret something for me...

> Ned Evett, the main endorsee of Fretlessguitar.com, gets a good sound
> out of his fretless acoustic guitars. His guitars are all equipped
> with glass fingerboards, however, which are not yet offered as an
> option on the production guitars. String wear on fingerboards can be
> an issue and there are various solutions to it for guitarists. One
> is to use Elixir strings, which have coated roundwounds. Another is
> to use fingerboards which are made of dense material, to better
> withstand string wear. These range from glass to metal. A third is
> to have the fingerboard coated with something like epoxy.
>

I think I'll inquire about whether they could do one for me with the glass
fingerboard, that seems like a better option than the regular fingerboard.

> Forgot to mention yet another fretless guitar choice:
>
> http://www.godinguitars.com/godinglissentarp.htm
>
> This is an electric-acoustic greatly influenced by the oud. I have
> no idea what the asking price is.
>

The Godin looks pretty interesting, a cross between an oud and an
electric/acoustic nylon string guitar, Hmmmm. I've played a few Godins
belonging to other guitarists over the years, I was pretty impressed with
the amplified sound, however they don't do much for me acoustically. I'd
actually considered buying one when I was doing MIDI acoustic in the late
80s.

> http://microtones.com (Jon Catler) hasn't produced an acoustic gtr yet
> but I know he made a lot of industry connections at NAMM last
> Winter. We've talked about it. Contact him at freenote@earthlink.net
>
> Folks like him and Dan Sterns have been doing the fretless & microtonal
> thing for
> a long time, Ned Evette just slides around by intuition (by his own
> admission,
> he doesn't know about the mysteries of tunings! Nice guy though.).
>

I've seen Jon Catlers' site before, that's how I knew about the G&L. Thanks
for the email address, I will get in touch with him in the event he comes
out with an acoustic.

I think I might have my luthier friend who did the 19 and 31 ET refret jobs
for me pull the frets out (and fill them in) of an existing guitar. He does
basses at the shop all the time, and he did a nice job converting a banjo
for me. The important thing I've just learned here is that some sort of
fretboard coating is in order. I'd thought for a long time about the sustain
(or lack thereof) issue inherent in a fretless acoustic, this seems to be
the solution. Sort of sarod-like.

I've gotten a great sound playing the fretless banjo strings with the
fingernails on my left hand fingers as opposed to the fingertip. This
resulted in a lot more sustain, however, long fingernails on the left hand
ain't so great for my regular fretted guitar chops...

Seth

--
Seth Austen
please visit me on the web at http://www.sethausten.com
email; seth@sethausten.com
download an mp3 at www.mp3.com/sethausten

"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic
hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs.
There's also a negative side."
- Hunter S. Thompson

Seth Austen wrote:

> I've seen Jon Catlers' site before, that's how I knew about the G&L. Thanks
> for the email address, I will get in touch with him in the event he comes
> out with an acoustic.

You might want might want to get in tounch with him anyways and
let him know the demand exists.

> I've gotten a great sound playing the fretless banjo strings with the
> fingernails on my left hand fingers as opposed to the fingertip. This
> resulted in a lot more sustain, however, long fingernails on the left hand
> ain't so great for my regular fretted guitar chops...

On Jons old guitar with the interchangable fretboards, he used to
fret with his fingernails on the high strings. On this particular
guitar,
the fingerboard was made of stainless steel. He no longer needs to use
this technique on the new guitar with the treated fretboard.

Which leads me to some more observations about fretless guitar...

Jon told me that he's noticed no fingerboard wear in 2 or 3 years.
This is coming from a guy who pretty much used it as his main guitar
for the first year.

The French company Viger makes one with an alloy (aluminum?)
fingerboard.
Unique sound but twice the price of a FreeNote G&L. And probably
twice the weight too!

db

--
* D a v i d B e a r d s l e y
* 49/32 R a d i o "all microtonal, all the time"
* http://www.virtulink.com/immp/lookhere.htm

--- In tuning@egroups.com, David Beardsley <xouoxno@v...> wrote:
> phv40@h... wrote:
>
> > I'm sorry I can't be of much help here. But what I can say is
that
> > Ned Evett, the main endorsee of Fretlessguitar.com,
>
> Get in touch with reality: He's the owner.

What's the matter with you today, David? Is it so hard just to say
he's the owner without snapping like a starved dog?

Excuuse me for not knowing everything about the fretless guitar
business!!!

Paolo

phv40@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> --- In tuning@egroups.com, David Beardsley <xouoxno@v...> wrote:
> > phv40@h... wrote:
> >
> > > I'm sorry I can't be of much help here. But what I can say is
> that
> > > Ned Evett, the main endorsee of Fretlessguitar.com,
> >
> > Get in touch with reality: He's the owner.
>
> What's the matter with you today, David? Is it so hard just to say
> he's the owner without snapping like a starved dog?
>
> Excuuse me for not knowing everything about the fretless guitar
> business!!!

Sorry to be so harsh. My bad judgment.

--
* D a v i d B e a r d s l e y
* 49/32 R a d i o "all microtonal, all the time"
* http://www.virtulink.com/immp/lookhere.htm