Yahoo Tuning Groups Ultimate Backup tuning reply to Margo Schulter

Margo, thank you very much for the reference to
Giraldus Cambrensis!

It appears there may be some validity to my suspicion that
the Vikings had a preference for 5-limit singing and that
they were the source of its introduction to England, which in
turn (re-?)introduced it into European 'art music'.

('re-?' because of its documentation by Eratosthenes in ancient
Greece, although the discontinuity cited by Paul Erlich is
well noted.)

I'm happy to see something approaching a confirmation
in Giraldus and Anonymous IV.

I've also been involved in an intensive study of _Beowulf_
and various aspects of its relationship to Scandinavia, and
very glad to see that it ties in with my musical studies!

I've also had a suspicion for a number of years, from my
study of the _musica enchiriadis_, that the Franks may have
had a preference for 5-limit and perhaps even chromatic music.
(I should warn those familiar with this treatise that I have
my own ideas about what it says! Future webpage.)

This would now be even less surprising to me, if one considers
the idea that perhaps a preference for 5-limit singing was
a common trait among all the Germanic peoples when they were
a more homogenous group (i.e., before about 300 AD), and
that it disappeared in proportion to the intermingling and
dispersion of the various German nations after the invasions.

I say this on analogy with the idea that the 'purest' Germanic
traits to be found in Europe around 1000 would have been manifested
in Scandinavia, as evidenced by a perusal of linguistic and
literary records from Tacitus to _Beowulf_.

If this is true, then apparently that preference got diluted
as the Franks slowly became truly Christianized, but of course
it would have left its mark on the Gallican Rite and the
music associated with it, which in turn affected all the
liturgical music of western Europe.

The comments on Jacobus of Liege are also very interesting.

[Margo Schulter, TD 209.19]
>
> Here I do not wish to make invidious comparisons, since each
> theory nicely fits the style of a beautiful music. However,
> I do wish to counteract the common view of "progress" in which
> the 18th-century harmonic system becomes a kind of directive
> goal for all previous practice and theory. The 3-limit harmony
> of the 13th century is very beautiful, and very non-18th-century.
>
> Monz raises the question as to whether medieval theorists
> described Pythagorean tuning because they did not have available
> the mathematics to describe anything else, theory's tools
> "improving" between 1300 and 1500.

I'm not sure if the accusation I perceive here was intended
or just a result of the juxtaposition of those two paragraphs.

I certainly do believe that music theory's tools 'improved'
between 1300 and 1500, as mathematical knowledge increased
and the printing press was invented, etc.

However, I want to make it clear that *I* do *not* hold the view
that 'the 18th-century harmonic system becomes a kind of directive
goal for all previous practice and theory'.

My view is simply that all kinds of tunings have always been
available to people, and they have been aware of this to varying
degrees thru-out history, which has affected both the compositions
and the theory which resulted.

If there's any new understanding I'm gaining from the debate
here between you, myself, Paul, and the others, it's that's
we must be very cautious about making *any* kind of blanket
statement about the intonation of this old music, and instead
try to investigate the *probabilities* of various different
tunings based on things like geography, ethnicity, etc.,
in medieval Europe.

What I see ultimately emerging from this (hopefully) is a
kaleidoscopic panoply of tunings employed for the medieval
repertoire, giving us, upon hearing performances using these
varied tunings, a new insight into the nature of the medieval
European character(s), and thus perhaps shedding new light on
one of the dimmest periods of a history that matters to a number
of us.

'Respectfully',

-monz

Joseph L. Monzo monz@juno.com
http://www.ixpres.com/interval/monzo/homepage.html
|"...I had broken thru the lattice barrier..."|
| - Erv Wilson |
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reply to Margo Schulter

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🔗Joe Monzo <monz@xxxx.xxxx>