historical woodwind key systems (was: Extended techniques (Was: Patrick..))

> From: paulerlich <paul@stretch-music.com>
> To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 6:12 PM
> Subject: [tuning] Re: Extended techniques (Was: Patrick Ozzard-Low)
>
>
> --- In tuning@y..., "gdsecor" <gdsecor@y...> wrote:
>
> > and the 5-limit, for which [the flute] was designed.
> > >
> > > Similarly, the bassoon is not intended to play in
> > > equal temperament as much as it is intended to play
> > > in tune.
> >
> > Again, in the 5 limit.
>
> george, this is news to me. i thought these instruments
> were designed to play in 12-equal. what exactly do you
> mean by saying they were designed to play in 5-limit?

i think George is on the right track with his response
to this, but i wouldn't say 5-limit without qualification.

the early woodwinds, without keys, were certainly
n o t designed to play 12-edo, but my guess is that the
"intended" tuning was no so much 5-limit as meantone.

the simplest fingering (successive fingers opening
successive holes) produced a diatonic scale.

duing the 1700s, European woodwind manufacturers added
more and more keys to the instruments to make it easier
to obtain chromatic pitches.

beginning around 1820 or so, starting with Boehm's flute,
the individual keys were integrated into complete systems
of keys which covered the whole instrument, for the flute
(Boehm), clarinet (Buffet), and oboe (Triebert). the
bassoon key system never became as "complete" as on the
other woodwinds (i.e., still lots of plain holes).

the intention here, during the 1800s, was definitely to
produce 12-edo as accurately as possible.

> is it just that the register key (or whatever) can give
> you the fifth overtone? is that all you're referring to??

the register key is so called because it allows the player to
more easily shift between different registers of the instrument.
it's actually not necessary -- if a player blows hard enough
the instrument will play a higher register anyway. the term
for this is "overblow".

but the registers operate differently on the different woodwinds
because of the shape of the tube. most woodwinds are conical,
which means that they overblow at the "8ve". the clarinet,
with its cylindrical tube, is the exception: it overblows at
the "12th", which is an "8ve" below the 5th partial, ratio 5:2.

-monz

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--- In tuning@y..., "monz" <joemonz@y...> wrote:

> but the registers operate differently on the different woodwinds
> because of the shape of the tube. most woodwinds are conical,
> which means that they overblow at the "8ve". the clarinet,
> with its cylindrical tube, is the exception: it overblows at
> the "12th", which is an "8ve" below the 5th partial, ratio 5:2.

i think you're a little confused, monz. the '12th' is 3/1, with is
the 3rd partial -- an "8ve" below the 5th partial would be a '10th'.
a clarinet actually overblows at the '12th', a 3/1 . . . and also,
blowing harder, at the 'major 17th', a 5/1 . . . note that 1 is
always in the denominator, since it's hard to acoustically involve a
note *lower* than the true fundamental of the instrument.

> From: paulerlich <paul@stretch-music.com>
> To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, February 08, 2002 3:18 PM
> Subject: [tuning] Re: historical woodwind key systems
>
>
> --- In tuning@y..., "monz" <joemonz@y...> wrote:
>
> > but the registers operate differently on the different woodwinds
> > because of the shape of the tube. most woodwinds are conical,
> > which means that they overblow at the "8ve". the clarinet,
> > with its cylindrical tube, is the exception: it overblows at
> > the "12th", which is an "8ve" below the 5th partial, ratio 5:2.
>
> i think you're a little confused, monz. the '12th' is 3/1, with is
> the 3rd partial -- an "8ve" below the 5th partial would be a '10th'.
> a clarinet actually overblows at the '12th', a 3/1 . . . and also,
> blowing harder, at the 'major 17th', a 5/1 . . . note that 1 is
> always in the denominator, since it's hard to acoustically involve a
> note *lower* than the true fundamental of the instrument.

WHOOPS!!!! a really big "MY BAD"! thanks, paul.

yes, what i meant was that the clarinet (and all cylindrical tubes)
overblows at the ratio 3:1, whereas conical tubes overblow at 2:1.

don't know how i managed to mess that up ... my first instrument,
and always the main one in my younger days, was the clarinet.

-monz

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