Hello (and what's this all about)

Hi, I'm new. (well, not that new, quite old really)
I can't say I entirely understand half of what I've read already ;)

I'm a half-assed computer programmer/musician from sunny old Scotland,
who has delved into writing some software for tuning soft (and hard)
synthesisers, like the Korg Z1, OaSys, NI pro52, Vaz....

If you'd like to try it, here:

http://www.mendozadil.freeserve.co.uk

Links 'Scale Browser Database'
Or even 'The Synth Manipulator' which does something else.

Please complain if you do try it and the results are not correct, as I
don't know for sure %)

I'm currently pottering about with a program to generate Maqam scales
on the keyboard, so if anyone can help highlight the fundamentals
there, cool !

"Life'a a beach, and then you fry" ;)

http://www.ampcast.com/guiseppimendoza
http://www.ampfea.org/sln/browse.php?num=3&a_id=132
http://www.mp3.com/guiseppimendoza
http://www.musicbuilder.com/Guiseppi_Mendoza/

The Synth Manipulator (Z1,Triton, others..)
http://www.mendozadil.freeserve.co.uk

--- In tuning@y..., Guiseppi Mendoza <guiseppi@m...> wrote:

> I'm currently pottering about with a program to generate Maqam
scales
> on the keyboard, so if anyone can help highlight the fundamentals
> there, cool !

If you believe the Egyptians, and Manuel, the notes you'll need for
the Arabic Maqamat and other scales can be quantized in 24-tET as
follows:

3 4 3 3 4 4 3 Dastgah Sehgah,
4 3 3 4 4 3 3 Arabic Diatonic, Maqam Rast
3 3 4 4 3 3 4 Maqam Hussaini
3 4 4 3 3 4 3 Maqam Sikah (Segah)
4 3 3 4 3 3 4 Miha'il Musaqa's mode: Egyptian, Dastgah Sehgah
3 4 3 4 3 4 3 Mohajira
3 5 2 4 3 5 2 Athanasopoulos' Byzantine Liturgical Chromatic,
Dastgah Chahargah
4 2 4 4 3 3 4 Dastgah Nava
2 7 1 4 2 7 1 Second plagal Byzantine mode of chant
3 3 4 4 2 4 4 Maqam 'Ushshaq Turki, Urfa, Isfahan, Dastgah Shur
3 3 4 4 2 1 3 4 Maqam Bayati
3 3 2 6 2 4 2 2 Maqam Saba
3 3 2 2 4 3 3 4 Maqam Mansuri
4 3 3 4 2 6 2 Maqam Suznak (Soznak)
4 3 3 4 4 2 1 3 Maqam Rast, Mahur, Dilkashidah, Dilnishin
4 3 1 2 1 3 4 2 1 3 Maqam Yakah
4 3 1 2 4 4 2 4 Maqam Suzidil 'ara
3 3 4 2 6 2 4 Maqam Qarjighar, Bayati Shuri
3 4 2 2 2 2 2 4 3 Maqam Huzam
3 4 2 6 2 4 3 Maqam Hizam (Huzam)
3 4 2 6 2 4 2 1 Maqam Rahat al-Arwah
3 4 3 3 4 4 2 1 Maqam Iraq
2 6 2 4 2 1 3 4 Maqam Hijaz
3 4 4 2 1 3 4 3 Maqam Musta'ar
3 4 4 4 2 4 2 1 Maqam Farahnak
3 4 3 3 2 6 2 1 Maqam Bastanikar
4 2 6 2 4 2 1 3 Maqam Farah Faza, Maqam Nakriz
4 2 1 3 2 2 2 2 3 1 2 Maqam Hayyan
4 2 1 3 2 2 4 2 1 3 Maqam Basandida
4 4 2 1 3 2 2 4 2 Maqam Shawq Afza
2 1 3 2 2 4 2 4 2 2 Maqam Shawq Tarab
3 1 2 4 4 2 4 4 Maqam Jabburi
2 4 4 4 3 3 4 Maqam Nawa
2 5 3 4 2 5 3 Maqam Higaz-kar
3 4 4 2 4 4 3 Maqam Su'ar, Naghmeh Abu Ata, Naghmeh Afshari
4 4 2 4 4 3 3 Maqam Jahargah, Naghmeh Bayat-e Tork, Naghmeh Dashti
3 5 2 4 2 4 4 Dastgah Homayun
4 2 4 4 3 5 2 Naghmeh Esfahan
3 6 1 5 2 6 1 Maqam 'Awg 'ara (Aug-ara)
4 1 5 4 2 6 2 Maqam Buselik
4 2 6 2 2 5 3 Maqam Neuter
4 4 2 3 1 4 6 Daniel-mode of Spanish-Arab Jews

from http://www.xs4all.nl/~huygensf/doc/modename.html

On Tue, 22 Jan 2002 23:56:40 -0000, SOMEONE articulated, I'd better
not say who :

>If you believe the Egyptians, and Manuel, the notes you'll need for
>the Arabic Maqamat and other scales can be quantized in 24-tET as
>follows:

Should I believe them ?
Thanks for that, I already have this doc, but didn't make the
connection properly !!! Double doh ;)

"Life'a a beach, and then you fry" ;)

http://www.ampcast.com/guiseppimendoza

The Synth Manipulator (Z1,Triton, others..)
http://www.mendozadil.freeserve.co.uk

--- In tuning@y..., Guiseppi Mendoza <guiseppi@m...> wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Jan 2002 23:56:40 -0000, SOMEONE articulated, I'd better
> not say who :
>
> >If you believe the Egyptians, and Manuel, the notes you'll need
for
> >the Arabic Maqamat and other scales can be quantized in 24-tET as
> >follows:
>
> Should I believe them ?
> Thanks for that, I already have this doc, but didn't make the
> connection properly !!! Double doh ;)

If you want the Turkish Makamat instead, look under 53-tET in the
same document.

Guiseppi!

--- In tuning@y..., Guiseppi Mendoza <guiseppi@m...> wrote:
> Hi, I'm new.

Metaphorically, aren't we all? :)

> I can't say I entirely understand half of what I've read already ;)

You're ahead of most of us!

> I'm a half-assed computer programmer/musician from sunny old
Scotland,
> who has delved into writing some software for tuning soft (and hard)
> synthesisers, like the Korg Z1, OaSys, NI pro52, Vaz....

Sounds great, I'll see if I have any instruments that will work. If
you don't get enough dialogue about the hardware here (good to see
Paul stepping in on the maqams), you might try at

/makemicromusic

A lot of the people over there are into the various synths. And it's
always good (in my book) to welcome a Scot!

Cheers,
Jon

On Wed, 23 Jan 2002 00:32:18 -0000, SOMEONE articulated, I'd better
not say who :

> Hi, I'm new.
>Metaphorically, aren't we all? :)

Hello.
Often things are new, but never for long enough..
Supporting every possible tuning and variation in a program for the
128 midinote standard is a mind boggling task, so I'm starting again
with a simpler approach to see if I can at least understand this a bit
better (getting there) and make something proper useful (some nice
grammar there).

>always good (in my book) to welcome a Scot!

I haven't read that one.
Sounds like a nice book, did you write it yourself ? Heh.

As for Maqam (or whatever based on 24 divisions) I suppose I'd have to
incorporate all the different tunings, as well as the modes ?
It's not likely that these will be right with an equally broken octave
(some more incorrect terminology, perhaps equal temp)
If this is right, it may explain something quite important that went
completely over my noggin' before.

Ah, the bliss of ignorance.

'Divnae skelp the kilt o'a Celt, ye'll jist git one heel o'a midden'
;)

"Life'a a beach, and then you fry" ;)

http://www.ampcast.com/guiseppimendoza

The Synth Manipulator (Z1,Triton, others..)
http://www.mendozadil.freeserve.co.uk

--- In tuning@y..., Guiseppi Mendoza <guiseppi@m...> wrote:

> As for Maqam (or whatever based on 24 divisions) I suppose I'd have
to
> incorporate all the different tunings, as well as the modes ?

Very often Arabic keyboards are equipped with a tuning setting where
E and B are tuned about a quartertone flat. By adjusting the tonic,
quite a few of the important Maqamat can be played.

--- In tuning@y..., Guiseppi Mendoza <guiseppi@m...> wrote:

> Should I believe them ?

Well, you could believe me and use 31 or 55 notes per octave instead, but then again I don't know anything about authentic arabic music.

On Wed, 23 Jan 2002 03:58:10 -0000, SOMEONE articulated, I'd better
not say who :

>> Should I believe them ?
>Well, you could believe me and use 31 or 55 notes per octave instead, but then again I don't know anything about authentic arabic music.

Should I believe you ?
Tis ok, I think I have found an adequate solution using 11.5 octaves
per note, but I will have to move halfway across the galaxy to play my
newly adorned instrument.
The cats melting with the din :)

"If I had twice the time, half the work done"

http://www.ampcast.com/guiseppimendoza

The Synth Manipulator (Z1,Triton, others..)
http://www.mendozadil.freeserve.co.uk

--- In tuning@y..., Guiseppi Mendoza <guiseppi@m...> wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Jan 2002 03:58:10 -0000, SOMEONE articulated, I'd better
> not say who :

> >> Should I believe them ?

> >Well, you could believe me and use 31 or 55 notes per octave instead, but then again I don't know anything about authentic arabic music.

> Should I believe you ?

You could try. I have reasons other than authentic arabic reasons for my suggestion, having to do with intonation.

On Wed, 23 Jan 2002 04:33:10 -0000, SOMEONE articulated, I'd better
not say who :

>You could try. I have reasons other than authentic arabic reasons for my suggestion, having to do with intonation.

How about different tunings for the base 24 tones that the modes are
generated from. Also, freedom to change them ?

"If I had twice the time, half the work done"

http://www.ampcast.com/guiseppimendoza

The Synth Manipulator (Z1,Triton, others..)
http://www.mendozadil.freeserve.co.uk

--- In tuning@y..., Guiseppi Mendoza <guiseppi@m...> wrote:

> How about different tunings for the base 24 tones that the modes are
> generated from.

You betcha. I have a temperament you might try for that.

Also, freedom to change them ?

I like freedom. :)

> From: "paulerlich" <paul@stretch-music.com>
> Subject: Re: Hello (and what's this all about)
>
> --- In tuning@y..., Guiseppi Mendoza <guiseppi@m...> wrote:
>
> > As for Maqam (or whatever based on 24 divisions) I suppose I'd have
> to
> > incorporate all the different tunings, as well as the modes ?
>
> Very often Arabic keyboards are equipped with a tuning setting where
> E and B are tuned about a quartertone flat. By adjusting the tonic,
> quite a few of the important Maqamat can be played.
>

In this neck of the woods (Israel) the keyboards from the big-name
Japanese manufacturers targetted for the 'local' musicians have a
two different systems. Either buttons to automatically retune to
various Maqams (if I could read Arabic I could say which) or
buttons to send certain pitches a quarter-tone flat (I've seen some
keyboards with a lot more of these than 2 though I can't say whether
they had all 12).

That said, Turkish writing I've seen uses 53 as its theoretic
basis, but I haven't seen a whole lot and not in Turkish.

Bob Valentine

Guiseppi Mendoza wrote:

> Hi, I'm new. (well, not that new, quite old really)
> I can't say I entirely understand half of what I've read already ;)
>
> I'm a half-assed computer programmer/musician from sunny old Scotland,
> who has delved into writing some software for tuning soft (and hard)
> synthesisers, like the Korg Z1, OaSys, NI pro52, Vaz....

Nice to welcome another Scot (and of the clan Mendoza). I'm in beautiful Jedburgh, having moved
from Edinburgh and have to date met no working musicians interested in microtonality. Are you a
loner in this respect or are there any sympathisers where you are? Keep up the good work.

Kind Regards

On Thu, 24 Jan 2002 09:25:35 +0200 (IST), SOMEONE articulated, I'd
better not say who :

>various Maqams (if I could read Arabic I could say which) or
>buttons to send certain pitches a quarter-tone flat (I've seen some
>keyboards with a lot more of these than 2 though I can't say whether
>they had all 12).

That could help too, I have never seen on of these instruments (a
google search may help me)
So, would buttons on a 'virtual Maq' keyboard to tune up'n'down in
steps of quarter-tones, on all the keys and not just one step, be just
as acceptable ?

>That said, Turkish writing I've seen uses 53 as its theoretic
>basis, but I haven't seen a whole lot and not in Turkish.

Umm, aagh !! (G! nearly gives up)
A 'user' subset in 24 would be ok ?

My program is getting there, it's actually 'looking' like it could be
useful, for someone, but it may go tits-up and be released unfinished
(with reasonably uncomplicated source) to the world ;(

Does this list filter attachments ?

"If I had twice the time, half the work done"

http://www.ampcast.com/guiseppimendoza