Newbie question

Hi all,

I'm very new at this microtonality thing, and I want to learn about
it. Any tips on where I can find some info resources about it on the
net to get me started?

Batchex
thedark1@Phreaker.net

"To know darkness, one must know the light,
To know the light, one must know darkness,
None will it be without the other,
For darkness and light is truly non-existing,
For they are all only the two sides of unity,
And all that contradicts is truly one"

>I'm very new at this microtonality thing, and I want to learn about
>it. Any tips on where I can find some info resources about it on the
>net to get me started?

I would definitely spend a few days browsing around John Starrett's site,
http://www-math.cudenver.edu/~jstarret/microtone.html. And don't be afraid
to ask "stupid" questions, most of us are pretty patient around here . . .

-----Original Message-----
From: Paul H. Erlich [mailto:PErlich@Acadian-Asset.com]
Sent: Friday, June 04, 1999 5:13 PM
To: 'tuning@onelist.com'
Subject: Re: [tuning] Newbie question

From: "Paul H. Erlich" <PErlich@Acadian-Asset.com>

>I'm very new at this microtonality thing, and I want to learn about
>it. Any tips on where I can find some info resources about it on the
>net to get me started?

I would definitely spend a few days browsing around John Starrett's site,
http://www-math.cudenver.edu/~jstarret/microtone.html. And don't be afraid
to ask "stupid" questions, most of us are pretty patient around here . . .

Oh, we're all basically newbies here --- this microtonality thing is new
to all of us, even those of us who have been doing it for years. Welcome
to the new frontier (not the one Donald Fagan was thinking about?) :)

Also, check out Joe Monzo's site:
http://onramp.uscom.com/~monz/index.html

Hello, dear In-Tuners :) ...

I've just searched in the archives for what I need to ask you now, but I see that I hardly have the vocabulary to find what you may most hopefully guide me to within a glimpse :)

If I have two frequencies

i.e. 100 Hz and 151 Hz

and want to let a program decide wether the closest approximate equivalent ratio is i.e.
- ?/?
- x/y
- 3/2

So I am searching something like [http://www.djehuti.com/pitchcalc/]- but calculating the closest approach within a limited range of denominators, resulting in a fraction - which program could do that, or how could I calculate that?

I have installed Scala and tried to find what I look for in the Tools or Approximate menu's, but I am to weak to peek through these terminologies to discover what I cannot see: Can Scala do this?

Of course the example above is a bit weak, but what with frequencies that are not so easily traceable? I create my scales through singing what I feel to be right and I want to be able to sweep away "the dust" with your help ...

:-)

Thanks for any little help
Clemens

p.s. If any of you are tuning scales primarily with using "the inner ear" and less in connection with theory, I'd like to receive a little hint to your works, if you'd share :-) ...

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "soymilkismycoffee" <listening.inn@...> wrote:

> So I am searching something like [http://www.djehuti.com/pitchcalc/]- but calculating the
> closest approach within a limited range of denominators, resulting in a fraction - which
> program could do that, or how could I calculate that?

If you have a limited range of denominators, that suggests a finite number of ratios, so I'd suggest making a table of them and their corresponding cents values. Then, whatever two frequencies you have, use http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-centsratio.htm to convert them to cents, and look up the nearest cents value in the table you made. There's probably a more efficient way to to do it, but I do everything brute-force due to my lack of mathematical education and my inability to even rudimentarily program my computer to do anything.

-Igs

The Stern-Brocot tree is your friend. Click here

http://www.maths.surrey.ac.uk/hosted-sites/R.Knott/Fibonacci/cfCALC.html

Type 151/100 into "decimal number" and then hit "show all best rational
approximations." You'll get a series of rationals than keeps getting closer
to your target value.

-Mike

On Feb 25, 2012, at 10:44 AM, soymilkismycoffee <
listening.inn@googlemail.com> wrote:

Hello, dear In-Tuners :) ...

I've just searched in the archives for what I need to ask you now, but I
see that I hardly have the vocabulary to find what you may most hopefully
guide me to within a glimpse :)

If I have two frequencies

i.e. 100 Hz and 151 Hz

and want to let a program decide wether the closest approximate equivalent
ratio is i.e.
- ?/?
- x/y
- 3/2

So I am searching something like [http://www.djehuti.com/pitchcalc/]- but
calculating the closest approach within a limited range of denominators,
resulting in a fraction - which program could do that, or how could I
calculate that?

I have installed Scala and tried to find what I look for in the Tools or
Approximate menu's, but I am to weak to peek through these terminologies to
discover what I cannot see: Can Scala do this?

Of course the example above is a bit weak, but what with frequencies that
are not so easily traceable? I create my scales through singing what I feel
to be right and I want to be able to sweep away "the dust" with your help
...

:-)

Thanks for any little help
Clemens

p.s. If any of you are tuning scales primarily with using "the inner ear"
and less in connection with theory, I'd like to receive a little hint to
your works, if you'd share :-) ...

That was what I hoped for, Mike. Thank you for connecting me to the information, it really means help :)

Clé

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@...> wrote:
>
> The Stern-Brocot tree is your friend. Click here
>
> http://www.maths.surrey.ac.uk/hosted-sites/R.Knott/Fibonacci/cfCALC.html
>
> Type 151/100 into "decimal number" and then hit "show all best rational
> approximations." You'll get a series of rationals than keeps getting closer
> to your target value.
>
> -Mike
>
> On Feb 25, 2012, at 10:44 AM, soymilkismycoffee <
> listening.inn@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Hello, dear In-Tuners :) ...
>
> I've just searched in the archives for what I need to ask you now, but I
> see that I hardly have the vocabulary to find what you may most hopefully
> guide me to within a glimpse :)
>
> If I have two frequencies
>
> i.e. 100 Hz and 151 Hz
>
> and want to let a program decide wether the closest approximate equivalent
> ratio is i.e.
> - ?/?
> - x/y
> - 3/2
>
> So I am searching something like [http://www.djehuti.com/pitchcalc/]- but
> calculating the closest approach within a limited range of denominators,
> resulting in a fraction - which program could do that, or how could I
> calculate that?
>
> I have installed Scala and tried to find what I look for in the Tools or
> Approximate menu's, but I am to weak to peek through these terminologies to
> discover what I cannot see: Can Scala do this?
>
> Of course the example above is a bit weak, but what with frequencies that
> are not so easily traceable? I create my scales through singing what I feel
> to be right and I want to be able to sweep away "the dust" with your help
> ...
>
> :-)
>
> Thanks for any little help
> Clemens
>
> p.s. If any of you are tuning scales primarily with using "the inner ear"
> and less in connection with theory, I'd like to receive a little hint to
> your works, if you'd share :-) ...
>

Thank you for feedback ..I had not thought about using cents as a bridge. Sengpielaudio is certainly a site to refer to, in calculations :) .. (while I must admit, using cents is somehow another step in the chain ...) ... but thanks again, it brought me forward a step!

Clé

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "cityoftheasleep" <igliashon@...> wrote:
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "soymilkismycoffee" <listening.inn@> wrote:
>
> > So I am searching something like [http://www.djehuti.com/pitchcalc/]- but calculating the
> > closest approach within a limited range of denominators, resulting in a fraction - which
> > program could do that, or how could I calculate that?
>
> If you have a limited range of denominators, that suggests a finite number of ratios, so I'd suggest making a table of them and their corresponding cents values. Then, whatever two frequencies you have, use http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-centsratio.htm to convert them to cents, and look up the nearest cents value in the table you made. There's probably a more efficient way to to do it, but I do everything brute-force due to my lack of mathematical education and my inability to even rudimentarily program my computer to do anything.
>
> -Igs
>

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "soymilkismycoffee" <listening.inn@...> wrote:
>
> Thank you for feedback ..I had not thought about using cents as a bridge. Sengpielaudio is certainly a site to refer to, in calculations :) .. (while I must admit, using cents is somehow another step in the chain ...) ... but thanks again, it brought me forward a step!

You certainly don't need to use a website for cents. The calculation is

cents = 1200 * log(ratio) / log(2)

You can do it with a pocket calculator, or a spreadsheet, or a table of logarithms, or a slide rule...

The inverse transformation is

ratio = 2 ^ (cents/1200)

Keenan

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Keenan Pepper" <keenanpepper@...> wrote:

> You can do it with a pocket calculator, or a spreadsheet, or a table of logarithms, or a slide rule...

Aren't you a little young to own a slide rule?

Thank you, Keenan, you just seem to know where I need to start. At the moment, I hardly dare to move away out of creativity to calculation, so that any calculation limits the connectedness to the original idea sounding in my head. But I feel that when I am more familiar in keeping the idea, I should integrate its handling with your basic landmark orientations for me .. :) .. Thanks again!

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Keenan Pepper" <keenanpepper@...> wrote:
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "soymilkismycoffee" <listening.inn@> wrote:
> >
> > Thank you for feedback ..I had not thought about using cents as a bridge. Sengpielaudio is certainly a site to refer to, in calculations :) .. (while I must admit, using cents is somehow another step in the chain ...) ... but thanks again, it brought me forward a step!
>
> You certainly don't need to use a website for cents. The calculation is
>
> cents = 1200 * log(ratio) / log(2)
>
> You can do it with a pocket calculator, or a spreadsheet, or a table of logarithms, or a slide rule...
>
> The inverse transformation is
>
> ratio = 2 ^ (cents/1200)
>
> Keenan
>

Just had the feeling that there's more of a I feel too old or too young, but almost never at feeling exactly having the right age :) ..

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "genewardsmith" <genewardsmith@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Keenan Pepper" <keenanpepper@> wrote:
>
> > You can do it with a pocket calculator, or a spreadsheet, or a table of logarithms, or a slide rule...
>
> Aren't you a little young to own a slide rule?
>