Penchant for Pamchama?

Hello ALL, Happy new year.

shaDja-panchama-bhaava is the Sa-Pa relationship; similarly, shaDja-
madhyama-bhaava is Sa-Ma relationship. If we "invert" the latter
(i.e. to make it Ma-Sa relationship), would it be the same as the
former? If yes, then then the Sa-Ma relationship may not have much
independent significance.

Thanks in anticipation and appreciation,
Haresh.

--- In tuning@y..., "hbakshi1" <hareshbakshi@h...> wrote:
> Hello ALL, Happy new year.
>
> shaDja-panchama-bhaava is the Sa-Pa relationship; similarly, shaDja-
> madhyama-bhaava is Sa-Ma relationship.

What does "bhaava" mean?

> If we "invert" the latter
> (i.e. to make it Ma-Sa relationship), would it be the same as the
> former?

If the actual pitches are Ma-Sa rather than Sa-Pa, there will be a
huge difference in terms of _tonal function_. But in terms of
_interval class_, there is no difference.

--- In tuning@y..., "paulerlich" <paul@s...> wrote:
> --- In tuning@y..., "hbakshi1" <hareshbakshi@h...> wrote:
> > Hello ALL, Happy new year.
> >
> > shaDja-panchama-bhaava is the Sa-Pa relationship; similarly,
shaDja-
> > madhyama-bhaava is Sa-Ma relationship.
>
> What does "bhaava" mean?
>
> > If we "invert" the latter
> > (i.e. to make it Ma-Sa relationship), would it be the same as the
> > former?
>
> If the actual pitches are Ma-Sa rather than Sa-Pa, there will be a
> huge difference in terms of _tonal function_. But in terms of
> _interval class_, there is no difference. >>>>

Hello Paul, thanks for your response.
"bhaava" means 'state (of being ... Sa-Pa, in the present case); or "-
ness", as "Sa-Pa"ness. ["bhaa" as in the word 'far'; "va"
prolonged 'a', as in 'turn']

Now, I need to be told more about "tonal function"!

Since I believe Sa-Pa and Ma-Sa relationships to be identical, can I
infer that we are constantly seeing tonal relationships in Indian
music as "interval classes"? Would it lead, at any stage, by any
stretch, to "extended reference"? -- for example, when improvising a
raga, to develop it from its vadi being taken as the tonic, at
certain stage of improvisation?

Thanking you in anticipation,
Haresh.

--- In tuning@y..., "hbakshi1" <hareshbakshi@h...> wrote:

> Now, I need to be told more about "tonal function"!

Well, in a Western tonal context, which may not be entirely
appropriate, Sa-Pa would be a "tonic" function, while Ma-Sa would be
a "subdominant" function, assuming some reference (say a drone) were
establishing Sa as the tonic pitch.