Re: Turkish and Sumerian

Although both the Turks and the Hungarians sometimes claim that their language
is related or descended from Sumerian, most linguists disagree. Even the
greatest exponents of language superfamilies place Sumerian in a different
superfamily from the speculative ones containing Turkish and Hungarian.

One such superfamily, Nostratic links the families containing Hungarian
(Uralic), TurkIsh (Altaic) to IndoEuropean (English, Iranian, Indic, Greek,
Armenian, Latin, Germanic, etc.), South Caucasian, Dravidian, Elamite,
Eskimo-Aleut, and some lesser known languages from North Asia. More speculative
are links from Nostratic to Afro-Asiatic (Semitic, Ancient Egyptian, Berber,
Cushitic, Omotic) and some Native American languages.
Some have speculated that Sumerian belongs to another, even less documented and
accepted superfamily called Sino-Caucasian which includes Sino-Tibetan,
Yeneseian, North Caucasian, Etruscan, Hurrian, Hattic, and maybe Basque and
Na-Dene (another large Native American group containing Navajo, Apache, and some
Northwest Canadian languages). Scientific American and Atlantic Monthly had
articles on these ideas some years ago.

I stress that these ideas are controversial within the linguistics community and
are not accepted by all or even most workers. Even less accepted is the idea
that a hypotheticalProto-World language from which all extant human languages
are descended can be reconstructed, though most linguists believe that, in fact,
all human languages are descended from a single language spoken in Africa
perhaps 200,000 years ago.

--John

Hi John,

> From: John Chalmers <JHCHALMERS@UCSD.EDU>
> To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 4:00 PM
> Subject: [tuning] Re: Turkish and Sumerian
>
>
> Although both the Turks and the Hungarians sometimes claim
> that their language is related or descended from Sumerian,
> most linguists disagree. Even the greatest exponents of language
> superfamilies place Sumerian in a different superfamily from
> the speculative ones containing Turkish and Hungarian.

Many thanks on your comments about linguistic relationships.

In fact, most Sumerologists will concede that the Sumerian
language is so complex that they're still only at the beginning
of gaining a full understanding of it.

love / peace / harmony ...

-monz
http://www.monz.org
"All roads lead to n^0"

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From: "John Chalmers" <JHCHALMERS@UCSD.EDU>

> One such superfamily, Nostratic links the families containing Hungarian
> (Uralic), TurkIsh (Altaic) to IndoEuropean (English, Iranian, Indic,
Greek,
> Armenian, Latin, Germanic, etc.), South Caucasian, Dravidian, Elamite,
> Eskimo-Aleut, and some lesser known languages from North Asia. More
speculative
> are links from Nostratic to Afro-Asiatic (Semitic, Ancient Egyptian,
Berber,
> Cushitic, Omotic) and some Native American languages.
> Some have speculated that Sumerian belongs to another, even less
documented and
> accepted superfamily called Sino-Caucasian which includes Sino-Tibetan,
> Yeneseian, North Caucasian, Etruscan, Hurrian, Hattic, and maybe Basque
and
> Na-Dene (another large Native American group containing Navajo, Apache,
and some
> Northwest Canadian languages). Scientific American and Atlantic Monthly
had
> articles on these ideas some years ago.

Hey I've studied Nostratic on my own a good bit! Interesting theory, though
still very controversial, much more than the more traditional Indo-European,
Afro-Asiatic, Dravidian etc. classifications. By the way, South Caucasian,
also known as Kartvelian, includes one of my favorite languages: Georgian, a
language quite unlike any other indeed. Dravidian is South Indian: Tamil,
Telugu, Kannada, Malayalam (I had a roommate once who spoke that) and some
others.

Sumerian *might* be linked with Elamite and Dravidian. Or it may be an
isolate (no known relation to any other language), like Basque in northern
Spain.

There is a Yahoo! Groups list devoted to discussion of proto-linguistics I
used to be on, by the way. So who's up for some discussion on Neanderthal
bone flute tunings?

~DaW~

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In a message dated 12/5/01 4:06:58 AM Eastern Standard Time, dawier@yahoo.com
writes:

>
> Sumerian *might* be linked with Elamite and Dravidian. Or it may be an
> isolate (no known relation to any other language), like Basque in northern
> Spain.
>

First off, I've enjoyed Danny's input on this list. It is great that John
(and my) love of languages gets an airing on the tuning list. Intonation is
certainly a part of language. So, I enjoy the inverse. Re linking Sumerian
with Elamite, I doubt it strongly. An exhibit of Elamite art from Susa
demonstrates a completely different culture with a different color scheme,
and a different written language.

(Georgian might be "Hurrian" in more than a soft G pronunciation.)

> There is a Yahoo! Groups list devoted to discussion of proto-linguistics I
> used to be on, by the way. So who's up for some discussion on Neanderthal
> bone flute tunings?
>
> ~DaW~
>
>
>

Please, tell us how we can find this list?

DaW!
Well you might want to talk to Jim French who has made many replicas
of Neanderthal
bone flute or as he points out are often reed instruments. Jim has done
alot of work with anthropologist, linguists and botanists in order to
create and recreate many of his instruments. As fate would have it, the
upcoming "Nomads of Anaphoria" features a trio of such an animal.

> In a message dated 12/5/01 4:06:58 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> dawier@yahoo.com writes:
>
>
>
>> There is a Yahoo! Groups list devoted to discussion of
>> proto-linguistics I
>> used to be on, by the way. So who's up for some discussion on
>> Neanderthal
>> bone flute tunings?
>>
>> ~DaW~
>>
>>
>
> Please, tell us how we can find this list?
>

-- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria island
http://www.anaphoria.com

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