more on Arabs/Europe

While reading an article in the mag Military History, regarding the
Mongols in Europe (in 1241), I came across this description of the Holy
Roman Emperor Frederick II: "The nominal leader of Europe, Holy Roman
Emperor Frederick II, never seemed particularly concerned by the Mongol
threat. This remarkable ruler was called Stupor Mundi, or "The Wonder of
the World," by his contemporaries. Frederick was a German by descent and
master of most of the German world, though his domains included his
native Sicily-where, in the 13th century, Greek was still spoken-and
there was a significant Muslim population. Frederick spoke six languages
fluently, among them Greek and Arabic. An ardent scholar of the
philosophy and the sciences, he had read the Koran and was an early
biologist. He got on well with Muslim rulers, whom he considered his
only cultural equals, and he kept a harem." Later: "He also had led a
crusade after being excommunicated and won his object, the return of
Jerusalem, by negotiation rather than through bloodshed." Sounds like in
this man, Europe and Arabia were quite intertwined.
And, of course, with the numerous crusades, there was certainly a lot of
mingling between Europe and the Middle East. This sounds like a real
interesting field for investigation, as far as music and tuning goes.
Someone just mentioned the music group Hesperion; they are doing some
interesting things with their take on early Jewish music, and the mixing
of European and Arabic elements. Seems like, at one time, the "East" and
"West" weren't as far apart as they have become...Hstick

> From: Neil Haverstick <STICK@USWEST.NET>
> To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 8:10 AM
> Subject: [tuning] more on Arabs/Europe
>
>
> And, of course, with the numerous crusades, there was certainly a lot of
> mingling between Europe and the Middle East. This sounds like a real
> interesting field for investigation, as far as music and tuning goes.
> Someone just mentioned the music group Hesperion; they are doing some
> interesting things with their take on early Jewish music, and the mixing
> of European and Arabic elements. Seems like, at one time, the "East" and
> "West" weren't as far apart as they have become...Hstick

During the "Dark Ages", the time from c. 470 - 1100 AD, between the
German invasions and the Crusades, hardly anyone in Western Europe
was able to read even Latin, let alone Greek.

It's my contention that the ancient Greek tuning theories came
back into Europe as a result of the Crusades, and even more so
of the diaspora of scholars from Constantinople into Italy when
the former was finally sacked by the Ottoman Turks in 1453.

love / peace / harmony ...

-monz
http://www.monz.org
"All roads lead to n^0"

_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Joe!
I believe I have mentioned this also in the past. After the Greeks the Persians developed the
different rotations/ permutations of the tetrachords which later was imported by the europeans /
primarily Italian traders. Persian theory i believed reached its high point in the 13th century
and also had a tremendous intact on north indian music. Is it not where the 53 tone scale comes
from?

monz wrote:

> During the "Dark Ages", the time from c. 470 - 1100 AD, between the
> German invasions and the Crusades, hardly anyone in Western Europe
> was able to read even Latin, let alone Greek.
>
> It's my contention that the ancient Greek tuning theories came
> back into Europe as a result of the Crusades, and even more so
> of the diaspora of scholars from Constantinople into Italy when
> the former was finally sacked by the Ottoman Turks in 1453.
>
> -monz
> http://www.monz.org
> "All roads lead to n^0"
>
>
>

-- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria island
http://www.anaphoria.com

The Wandering Medicine Show
Wed. 8-9 KXLU 88.9 fm

Hi Kraig,

> From: Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@anaphoria.com>
> To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2001 12:33 PM
> Subject: Re: [tuning] more on Arabs/Europe
>
>
> Joe!
> I believe I have mentioned this also in the past.
> After the Greeks the Persians developed the different
> rotations/ permutations of the tetrachords which later
> was imported by the europeans / primarily Italian traders.
> Persian theory i believed reached its high point in the
> 13th century and also had a tremendous intact on north
> indian music. Is it not where the 53 tone scale comes
> from?

Yes, you did mention before that the Ottoman conquest of
Constantinople resulted in the influx of many Greek scholars
into Persia, and indeed this was corroborated by a history
text which I read recently. I don't know much about Persian
music or tuning, however, so can't really comment further on that.

During the 1100-1500s, there certainly was a great deal of trade
between Western Europe -- especially Flanders (Brugge) and then the
Republic of Venice -- and the area we now call the Middle East.
And as far back as the late 700s, Charlemagne had close diplomatic
ties with the Baghdad Caliphate.

-monz

_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com