another important point

Another significant point in the Blackjack debate between C:G:D:A and
G:D:A:E is the fact that when I *demonstrate* the scale to an
instrumentalist... say, the trombonist for my last piece, I can show
him/her a scale that *begins* on C.

That's a nice reference. Even though it might seem silly, I believe
that facilitates the learning curve. It's always great to at least
*start* on someplace familiar...

JP

jpehrson@rcn.com schrieb:
>
> Another significant point in the Blackjack debate between C:G:D:A and
> G:D:A:E is the fact that when I *demonstrate* the scale to an
> instrumentalist... say, the trombonist for my last piece, I can show
> him/her a scale that *begins* on C.

Hi,
I'm not sure if I could follow all points of this discussion,
but for a trombonist, better make that a Bb. Or rather, Bb up a
comma, since classical trombonists are used to tuning to D, a
fifth below A440 (the fifth partial). (Basically, this amounts
to a plea for D and A.)
String players are probably most happy when their strings, or
the intervals between them, stay as they are. Unless you really
want to use open string sounds; then you have to prescribe some
scordatura as for any other non-pythagorean tuning.

klaus

--- In tuning@y..., klaus schmirler <KSchmir@z...> wrote:

> Hi,
> I'm not sure if I could follow all points of this discussion,
> but for a trombonist, better make that a Bb.

This is ironic, because Joseph's original Blackjack piece for
trombone and electronics, used the Blackjack scale centered on the
fifth A[-E[, so that there was nothing within 30 cents of concert Bb.

> Or rather, Bb up a
> comma, since classical trombonists are used to tuning to D, a
> fifth below A440 (the fifth partial). (Basically, this amounts
> to a plea for D and A.)

I doubt many classical trombonists use a just third for this, but
following along . . .

. . . if you center on D-A, you'll have Bb up a comma, but if you
center on G-D, you'll also have Bb up a comma, forming a nice minor
triad with the central G and D.

> String players are probably most happy when their strings, or
> the intervals between them, stay as they are. Unless you really
> want to use open string sounds; then you have to prescribe some
> scordatura as for any other non-pythagorean tuning.

The nice thing is that we can arrange for Blackjack to have either C-
G-D-A, or G-D-A-E (but not both) exactly in 12-tET.

Paul Erlich schrieb:
>
> --- In tuning@y..., klaus schmirler <KSchmir@z...> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> > I'm not sure if I could follow all points of this discussion,
> > but for a trombonist, better make that a Bb.
>
> This is ironic, because Joseph's original Blackjack piece for
> trombone and electronics, used the Blackjack scale centered on the
> fifth A[-E[, so that there was nothing within 30 cents of concert Bb.

which is the other popular tuning note, making D a comma flat.

> I doubt many classical trombonists use a just third for this, but
> following along . . .

The just third is built in, since Bb is the unextended slide,
and D its fifth partial: the infamous "low E" of the trumpet
players who tune to their C, really Bb. For an A, you have to
extend the slide; it is "somewhere out there". If you tune to D,
you always have the option of lowering your Bb for a larger
third. If you tune to Bb, you should stay away from first
position D unless you really want the 5/4 (in actual practice, I
think you just extend your slide by a comma. I do it that way).
The point of all this was that C is not a very useful note for
brass players to relate to, but that they are well served with
either Bb or D (you
can't, and shouldn't, have both from 12tET) or A.

klaus