Re: Hooray Ray

Ray I agree with you completely. Barbara Hero and I discussed your work
three years ago before we recorded the Atlantis record with Denny Genovese
and my ensemble The Big Swifty. I especially appreciated your inclusion of
the Raga ratios at a time (then) I was beginning my Just/Raag/danielou
understandings.

Ray Tomes wrote:

> From: rtomes@kcbbs.gen.nz (Ray Tomes)
>
> monz@juno.com wrote:
>
> >It's important to emphasize that in the blues, the '7th' is
> >used as a *harmonic 7th* (7:4) in virtually every chord.
>
> I Agree.
>
> >I feel this rational interpretation is valid because these
> >chords *do not* follow the type of 'dominant 7th' resolution
> >rules that classical music uses (which require a non-harmonic
> >'7th').
>
> I have been in this argument before, but I don't think that the chord
> C-E-G-Bb can possibly mean anything other than the ratios 4:5:6:7 in any
> system of music. It may be classically correct that Bb is 16/9 times C
> or whatever (which it would be if played with an F) but the raios would
> then be 36:45:54:64 which is impossibly complex to be "intentional".
> IMO the old theory does not match the composers "real musical intention"
> which must be 4:5:6:7 even if the instrument cannot produce that as
> ratios of 36:45:54:64 can have no meaning at all. The problem is that
> apart from the main notes in the key the others have multiple possible
> different meanings and so a strict rule will often be wrong.
>
> >At the same time, I've found that the '#IV/bV' can often
> >be analyzed as a harmonic tone: it's simply an 11:8, or
> >sometimes a 7:5 or 10:7, and *possibly* a 23:16, altho
> >I'm not at all sure that such a high prime is really
> >useful in describing blues, especially since 23:16 is
> >only ~11 cents higher than the much simpler 10:7.
>
> I say go with the 11:8 and forget the others. In your subsequent
> discussion you also raise the 13:8 ratio which I think can occur.
> However putting numbers like 7 in the denominator, where they represent
> the tonic, is generally going to be wrong even if the numbers are
> smaller. When in a minor then the tonic may be 5 but otherwise probably
> not.
>
> Having said that, I think that the 7 limit is adequate for most pieces
> and that the 11 and 13 ratios are exceptions. I base my opinions
> entirely on theoretical grounds in relation to how I understand music
> originates in the universe.
>
> -- Ray Tomes -- http://www.kcbbs.gen.nz/users/rtomes/rt-home.htm --
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>
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