blues/jazz

The Catler Brothers "Crash Landing" CD is pretty good JI
jazz...sounds fine. I tend to think of jazz, at it's core, as a way of
looking at music from a certain rhythmic viewpoint first; I believe
"swing" sums it up. It's a fascinating rhythm, and not at all from the
European side of things. The harmonic side of jazz is certainly European
in concept...but, as they say, "It don't mean a thing..." etc.
Therefore, to me, as long as the rhythm is happening, the rest will take
care of itself, whether it's JI, or really, any other scale. I enjoy
playing jazz in 19 eq, and I can imagine playing it in just about any
tuning...although it might not sound like "Misty." In fact, jazz is a
real young art form, and I would imagine there's a lot of interesting
things yet to be done with it...aren't there?
And as for blues (yet another young form, as is all American music,
really, excepting the music of the folks who were here to greet the
white guys), I always get a kick out of seeing folks try to analyze it
in terms of ratios. In my 35 years of playing and studying blues, I have
yet to see one of the Maestros of the form ever analyze what they do in
terms of ratios...they just do it. At it's most basic and deepest, blues
is a REALLY non-intellectual form; it comes from the heart and soul
first (and Mike Bloomfield did occasionally mention microtones...but,
never from a math viewpoint).
Sure, it's ok with me to see folks chat about blues in a math
context...but, fact is, if you listen to the guys who really bend them
strings, like Albert King, Hendrix, Roy Buchanan, and many others,
they're really all over the place, pitchwise. Albert had a limited
repertoire of licks; but, within his framework, he really had a lot of
tonal subtleties happening; he always had a little twist to his bends,
and they always sounded fresh. He would put the string in different
places, depending on the feeling he was after. Yeah, maybe those places
can be related to ratios; but, the feeling came first.
Also, of course, there's lots of regional styles of blues, some more
microtonal than others...blues is pretty diverse, to be sure, and most
folks don't play more than one style. Blues, too, is wide open to
innovation...I've found, again, that 19 eq lets one enter new realms of
expression, both in composition and improvisation, in this style...try
it, you'll like it...and do keep up the challenging posts...Hstick

I agree wholeheartedly that the feeling and musical intuition come
first. The origin of these delicious blues sounds was certainly not
mathematical intellection!!! However, just as in any music, there are
those who do it well, and those who don't. I notice some white blues
singers stick to 12-tET tunings when they sing, and by and large the
old Mississippi and Memphis, etc. black folk artists and certainly
most black gospel blue runs definitely DO NOT.

I much prefer the latter! But even among blacks, there are those who
tune consistently and well and those who don't, and the ones that
tune well are gerneally the same ones who are also more musically
expressive. Funny, huh? Just like musicians in other traditions!

My ear was able to imitate the black intervals from when I was "knee
high to a toad frog", and I knew nothing of JI then, I assure you!
However, I find it fun to appreciate in terms of JI what the
intuition has led us to do in practice. It deosn't hurt a thing and
it even liberates keyboard players to experiement in ways that only
vocalists and guitarists could before.

And what about something like experimenting with quasi-renaissance
polyphony on blues scales that are tuned accurately to what the best
in the authentic blues traditions have done? A good football player
can throw a good pass without knowing anything about the mathematics
of ballistics, but then he couldn't design anything that would
imitate that action accurately, could he?

--- In tuning@y..., "Neil Haverstick" <STICK@U...> wrote:
> The Catler Brothers "Crash Landing" CD is pretty good JI
> jazz...sounds fine. I tend to think of jazz, at it's core, as a way
of
> looking at music from a certain rhythmic viewpoint first; I believe
> "swing" sums it up. It's a fascinating rhythm, and not at all from
the
> European side of things. The harmonic side of jazz is certainly
European
> in concept...but, as they say, "It don't mean a thing..." etc.
> Therefore, to me, as long as the rhythm is happening, the rest will
take
> care of itself, whether it's JI, or really, any other scale. I enjoy
> playing jazz in 19 eq, and I can imagine playing it in just about
any
> tuning...although it might not sound like "Misty." In fact, jazz is
a
> real young art form, and I would imagine there's a lot of
interesting
> things yet to be done with it...aren't there?
> And as for blues (yet another young form, as is all American
music,
> really, excepting the music of the folks who were here to greet the
> white guys), I always get a kick out of seeing folks try to analyze
it
> in terms of ratios. In my 35 years of playing and studying blues, I
have
> yet to see one of the Maestros of the form ever analyze what they
do in
> terms of ratios...they just do it. At it's most basic and deepest,
blues
> is a REALLY non-intellectual form; it comes from the heart and soul
> first (and Mike Bloomfield did occasionally mention
microtones...but,
> never from a math viewpoint).
> Sure, it's ok with me to see folks chat about blues in a math
> context...but, fact is, if you listen to the guys who really bend
them
> strings, like Albert King, Hendrix, Roy Buchanan, and many others,
> they're really all over the place, pitchwise. Albert had a limited
> repertoire of licks; but, within his framework, he really had a lot
of
> tonal subtleties happening; he always had a little twist to his
bends,
> and they always sounded fresh. He would put the string in different
> places, depending on the feeling he was after. Yeah, maybe those
places
> can be related to ratios; but, the feeling came first.
> Also, of course, there's lots of regional styles of blues, some more
> microtonal than others...blues is pretty diverse, to be sure, and
most
> folks don't play more than one style. Blues, too, is wide open to
> innovation...I've found, again, that 19 eq lets one enter new
realms of
> expression, both in composition and improvisation, in this
style...try
> it, you'll like it...and do keep up the challenging posts...Hstick