Real Musicianship...

Let me address something that so few, possibly none, of you have
ever considered. Real musicianship exists inside of a creative
individual and a visionary of the future. It does not exist inside a
building (be it a school, prison, or any institution), an instructor,
or a false socially held doctrine. It cannot be taught, and it
cannot be forced. The individual must see it for themselves.
Numbers, ratios, music, none of it means anything at all if someone
is a part of that corrupted slavery system. It is the "creation"
of "music" for superficial means in order to act as part of some
elistist jargon to portray a superior social image that is the
corruption present everywhere. It is pathetic how an art needs to
be "taught" to those who were never meant to know it. It is "taught"
by a ruling school of thought which dictates what they want to see by
limiting potentials of the few who see beyond them and their
nonsense. If you have any doubt or are still in ignorance, look at
the primitive "educational" system when it comes to anything
including music. Everyone is like a prisoner being confined to the
false doctrines of the past and is BLATANTLY PROHIBITED from
exploring their own creative impulses, if any exist. It is these
rare creative people that make anything at all, and it is the masses
of copycats that abuse and corrupt pure ideas and spread it to the
innocent for replication. In my mind, I have seen little, if any
truly creative work ever. This forum is like an offshoot of a
classical music forum. Since these generalities exist, it is obvious
that collectively there is marching into the past instead of the
future. I do not blame those who have no ideas for themselves or
those who even copy others. That is rather inevitable. I do blame
them for infecting other innocent creative young minds with their
distorted views and by prohibiting these young minds from developing
nay of their inborn talent in their own unique way.

One cannot be "taught" how to create, it happens through magic alone
PageWizard

**YAWN**

so lets hear some mp3's of your unfettered genius, PhageGizzard

> -----Original Message-----
> From: PageWizard, Magician of the Caverns [mailto:PageWizard17@aol.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 3:24 AM
> To: tuning@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [tuning] Real Musicianship...
>
>
>
> Let me address something that so few, possibly none, of you have
> ever considered. Real musicianship exists inside of a creative
> individual and a visionary of the future. It does not exist inside a
> building (be it a school, prison, or any institution), an instructor,
> or a false socially held doctrine. It cannot be taught, and it
> cannot be forced. The individual must see it for themselves.
> Numbers, ratios, music, none of it means anything at all if someone
> is a part of that corrupted slavery system. It is the "creation"
> of "music" for superficial means in order to act as part of some
> elistist jargon to portray a superior social image that is the
> corruption present everywhere. It is pathetic how an art needs to
> be "taught" to those who were never meant to know it. It is "taught"
> by a ruling school of thought which dictates what they want to see by
> limiting potentials of the few who see beyond them and their
> nonsense. If you have any doubt or are still in ignorance, look at
> the primitive "educational" system when it comes to anything
> including music. Everyone is like a prisoner being confined to the
> false doctrines of the past and is BLATANTLY PROHIBITED from
> exploring their own creative impulses, if any exist. It is these
> rare creative people that make anything at all, and it is the masses
> of copycats that abuse and corrupt pure ideas and spread it to the
> innocent for replication. In my mind, I have seen little, if any
> truly creative work ever. This forum is like an offshoot of a
> classical music forum. Since these generalities exist, it is obvious
> that collectively there is marching into the past instead of the
> future. I do not blame those who have no ideas for themselves or
> those who even copy others. That is rather inevitable. I do blame
> them for infecting other innocent creative young minds with their
> distorted views and by prohibiting these young minds from developing
> nay of their inborn talent in their own unique way.
>
> One cannot be "taught" how to create, it happens through magic alone
> PageWizard
>
>
>
> You do not need web access to participate. You may subscribe through
> email. Send an empty email to one of these addresses:
> tuning-subscribe@yahoogroups.com - join the tuning group.
> tuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com - unsubscribe from the tuning group.
> tuning-nomail@yahoogroups.com - put your email message delivery
> on hold for the tuning group.
> tuning-digest@yahoogroups.com - change your subscription to
> daily digest mode.
> tuning-normal@yahoogroups.com - change your subscription to
> individual emails.
> tuning-help@yahoogroups.com - receive general help information.
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

PW,

While all talk and no action may not be as detrimental as a bad
teacher, it is certainly no less annoying. Care to share any of your
magic, or should we just assume that it exists as vapor art?

Jon

--- In tuning@y..., "PageWizard, Magician of the Caverns"
<PageWizard17@a...> wrote:
>
> Let me address something that so few, possibly none, of you have
> ever considered.

Yeah, I never thought of that.

> Real musicianship exists inside of a creative
> individual and a visionary of the future. It does not exist inside
> a building (be it a school, prison, or any institution), instructor,
> or a false socially held doctrine.
<snip>
> One cannot be "taught" how to create, it happens through magic alone
> PageWizard

Hmm... some real food for thought there.

John Starrett

"PageWizard, Magician of the Caverns" wrote:

> Let me address something that so few, possibly none, of you have
> ever considered. Real musicianship exists inside of a creative
> individual and a visionary of the future.

Hey - I'm one of the chosen few!

> It does not exist inside a
> building (be it a school, prison, or any institution), an instructor,
> or a false socially held doctrine. It cannot be taught, and it
> cannot be forced. The individual must see it for themselves.

Pants - what do we do - leave children till they attain genius?

> Numbers, ratios, music, none of it means anything at all if someone
> is a part of that corrupted slavery system. It is the "creation"
> of "music" for superficial means in order to act as part of some
> elistist jargon to portray a superior social image that is the
> corruption present everywhere. It is pathetic how an art needs to
> be "taught" to those who were never meant to know it. It is "taught"
> by a ruling school of thought which dictates what they want to see by
> limiting potentials of the few who see beyond them and their
> nonsense. If you have any doubt or are still in ignorance, look at
> the primitive "educational" system when it comes to anything
> including music. Everyone is like a prisoner being confined to the
> false doctrines of the past and is BLATANTLY PROHIBITED from
> exploring their own creative impulses, if any exist. It is these
> rare creative people that make anything at all, and it is the masses
> of copycats that abuse and corrupt pure ideas and spread it to the
> innocent for replication. In my mind, I have seen little, if any
> truly creative work ever.

Maybe you're too fussy. Or maybe you don't listen to a wide enough range of music.

> This forum is like an offshoot of a
> classical music forum. Since these generalities exist, it is obvious
> that collectively there is marching into the past instead of the
> future. I do not blame those who have no ideas for themselves or
> those who even copy others. That is rather inevitable. I do blame
> them for infecting other innocent creative young minds with their
> distorted views and by prohibiting these young minds from developing
> nay of their inborn talent in their own unique way.
>
> One cannot be "taught" how to create, it happens through magic alone
> PageWizard
>

I wonder if PageWizard is really "you know who". Seems like a windup to me. Can anyone really mean
all this stuff?

Love and Peace anyway.

Yes, I can ...
But you must to be true musician for understand
that...
Peace and what ? :)
What do you love ? You in the music or ...the music in
you ?!

Dimitrov

--- Alison Monteith <alison.monteith3@which.net> a
�crit�: >
>
> "PageWizard, Magician of the Caverns" wrote:
>
> > Let me address something that so few, possibly
> none, of you have
> > ever considered. Real musicianship exists inside
> of a creative
> > individual and a visionary of the future.
>
> Hey - I'm one of the chosen few!
>
> > It does not exist inside a
> > building (be it a school, prison, or any
> institution), an instructor,
> > or a false socially held doctrine. It cannot be
> taught, and it
> > cannot be forced. The individual must see it for
> themselves.
>
> Pants - what do we do - leave children till they
> attain genius?
>
>
> > Numbers, ratios, music, none of it means anything
> at all if someone
> > is a part of that corrupted slavery system. It is
> the "creation"
> > of "music" for superficial means in order to act
> as part of some
> > elistist jargon to portray a superior social image
> that is the
> > corruption present everywhere. It is pathetic how
> an art needs to
> > be "taught" to those who were never meant to know
> it. It is "taught"
> > by a ruling school of thought which dictates what
> they want to see by
> > limiting potentials of the few who see beyond them
> and their
> > nonsense. If you have any doubt or are still in
> ignorance, look at
> > the primitive "educational" system when it comes
> to anything
> > including music. Everyone is like a prisoner
> being confined to the
> > false doctrines of the past and is BLATANTLY
> PROHIBITED from
> > exploring their own creative impulses, if any
> exist. It is these
> > rare creative people that make anything at all,
> and it is the masses
> > of copycats that abuse and corrupt pure ideas and
> spread it to the
> > innocent for replication. In my mind, I have seen
> little, if any
> > truly creative work ever.
>
> Maybe you're too fussy. Or maybe you don't listen to
> a wide enough range of music.
>
> > This forum is like an offshoot of a
> > classical music forum. Since these generalities
> exist, it is obvious
> > that collectively there is marching into the past
> instead of the
> > future. I do not blame those who have no ideas
> for themselves or
> > those who even copy others. That is rather
> inevitable. I do blame
> > them for infecting other innocent creative young
> minds with their
> > distorted views and by prohibiting these young
> minds from developing
> > nay of their inborn talent in their own unique
> way.
> >
> > One cannot be "taught" how to create, it happens
> through magic alone
> > PageWizard
> >
>
> I wonder if PageWizard is really "you know who".
> Seems like a windup to me. Can anyone really mean
> all this stuff?
>
> Love and Peace anyway.
>
>
>

___________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!? -- Un e-mail gratuit @yahoo.fr !
Yahoo! Courrier : http://fr.mail.yahoo.com

At 04:22 PM 9/25/01 -0000, you wrote:
>--- In tuning@y..., "PageWizard, Magician of the Caverns"
><PageWizard17@a...> wrote:
>> Real musicianship exists inside of a creative
>> individual and a visionary of the future. It does not exist inside
>> a building (be it a school, prison, or any institution), instructor,
>> or a false socially held doctrine.
><snip>
>> One cannot be "taught" how to create, it happens through magic alone
>> PageWizard
Notice how, when someone has a bone to pick, that their view of things
becomes myopic? On one hand, you're right. Creativity either is or isn't;
it cannot be taught. But! it certainly can be _fostered and, in a society
where schools and prisons are such major institutions, such institutions
will foster _something and sometimes the thing that's fostered is one's
creative process.
Having been brought up in the '50's midwest -- pre-rock 'n roll -- my
musical life contained all those bland bigband vocalists, even blander
church music, and all that pablum by guys like Carmen Cavalero and John
Scott Trotter. I didn't encounter Bird or Charles Ives til I hit school and
got to know kids from the big city.
Up til then I had always heard sound sequences in my mind but never
considered that they would communicate with anyone else or that anyone else
would be interested. My undergrad class in contemporary music was the
equivalent of having all the halogen lights turned on at once. The stale
air of the midwest no longer mattered, I knew where to look for nutrients
ehich, by the way, the creative drive does need.
Who said "no man is an island"? Well, some people are virtually insular
which is a convolluted way of saying "mad." I don't mind being quirky, but
there's such a thing as a healthy connection with the rest of peopledom and
its history that can ensure continued creativity.
There! now my bone's clean.
Jay

I agree with Jay. :)

Johnny Reinhard

--- In tuning@y..., Afmmjr@a... wrote:
> I agree with Jay. :)
>
>
> Johnny Reinhard

Bob:
Chuckle...giggle.....snort, cough, tee-hee! I do, too. I've been
following this one off and on and never been motivated to respond
before now. Just had to giggle a little.

The whole time I was in school, I never heard anything about
intonation that showed any depth of understanding, so I went to the
library and dug it out myself. I was hearing difference tones every
time I tuned double stops justly on my violin, and nobody on faculty
new diddly about it or JI.

Educational systems can and do stultify and cramp creativity, but
truly creative people feel the challenge and rise to it! It can even
STIMULATE creativity to have people trying to squash it (which
happens a LOT in my experience)!

This is part of LIFE. Most people are not creative and FEAR things
that violate their comfortable little sense of convention. If you're
really creative, you're going to be the exception and you're going to
get some flack for it from the narrow, the fear-ridden, and the
convention-minded. Learn to live with it! That's part of what real
creativity is!