the "be bop" scale

Ken Fasano wrote:

> The "be bop" scale is simply one of two octatonic scales,
> C D Eb F F# G# A B
> or
> C Db Eb E F# G A Bb

Is it like the blues scale? You can play over all the changes and itsounds
OK? With that one scale one can play Giant Steps?
And why do they call it the bebop scale anyway?

Cool scale though...maybe I could clean the dangerous kitchen with it.

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>Ken Fasano wrote:

>> The "be bop" scale is simply one of two octatonic scales,
>> C D Eb F F# G# A B
>> or
>> C Db Eb E F# G A Bb

These are known in jazz as the diminished scale, and the bebop scales are
not these.

>Is it like the blues scale? You can play over all the changes and itsounds
>OK?

Depends what changes. Many 20th century composers, classical, jazz, and
prog-rock, have long sections entirely in this scales. With four major
triads, four minor triads, and lots of more dissonant harmonies, it's quite
rich. But the symmetry at the minor third deprives it of a feeling of
tonality or key-center.

>With that one scale one can play Giant Steps?

No -- Giant Steps involves a cycle of major thirds, while the diminished
scale involves a cycle of minor thirds.

>And why do they call it the bebop scale anyway?

The actual "bebop scales" are diatonic scales with one note interpolated.
They were used for their rhythmical properties; e. g., one could span an
octave in one measure using continuous eighth notes. Real bebop music seldom
stays in one "scale" for very long; all twelve tones will generally be found
in a long enough sample.

Paul H. Erlich wrote:

> >With that one scale one can play Giant Steps?
>
> No -- Giant Steps involves a cycle of major thirds, while the diminished
> scale involves a cycle of minor thirds.

I wasn't being too serious when I wrote that. I know better.

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>> The "be bop" scale is simply one of two octatonic scales,
>> C D Eb F F# G# A B
>> or
>> C Db Eb E F# G A Bb

I would consider the bebop scale as follows:

C Db Eb E F# G# Bb C

I would not include the Ma 6th degree. The scale can be derived by playing
a melodic minor (1 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7 8) scale on the b5 of the 1 chord, but
starting the scale on the 1 of the V chord. Thinking of it this way is
usefull for guitar players. This scale sounds bitchin over any altered
dominant chord. In the dominant chord the 5th or 9th can be implied.

You can't really play it over "all the changes" It is considered an altered
dominant scale with flat or sharp 9th and or 5th on the V7 chord. It would
not sound good on the I chord. Each of the various scale tones can resolve
to the various elements of I chord:

b9 resolves to 5
#9 resolves to #7
b5 resolves to 1 or 9 (although it is "square" resolve on the 1 of the 1
chord. much better to land on a "pretty" note like the ninth)
#5 resolves to 3 or 9

>
>Is it like the blues scale? You can play over all the changes and itsounds
>OK? With that one scale one can play Giant Steps?

No, see above. Giant Steps modulates through a cycle of II V I progressions
in thirds, not fifths as in traditional harmony.

>And why do they call it the bebop scale anyway?

I would say that Bird and Diz invented it. They were looking for new sounds
and the 5th and 9th were the likely targets. The scale partly characterized
the sound of the new Jazz of the mid forties.

I wonder how these progressions would play out in JI. Any thoughts MONZ??

Darren Burgess
Gainesville FL

>>> The "be bop" scale is simply one of two octatonic scales,
>>> C D Eb F F# G# A B
>>> or
>>> C Db Eb E F# G A Bb

Once again, for reference, these are the modes of the diminished scale.

Darren Burgess wrote:

>I would consider the bebop scale as follows:
>
>C Db Eb E F# G# Bb C
>

That is another scale essential to bebop but is also not "the" bebop scale.
It is called the altered scale, for reasons Darren points out:

>This scale sounds bitchin over any altered
>dominant chord. In the dominant chord the 5th or 9th can be implied.

If the dominant chord has an altered 9th but a natural 5th and/or major
13th, the second mode of the diminished scale (above) is best. In the case
of an altered 9th and altered 5th, you use the altered scale. In the case of
a natural 9th, regardless of other alterations, neither scale works.

>You can't really play it over "all the changes" It is considered an
altered
>dominant scale with flat or sharp 9th and or 5th on the V7 chord. It would
>not sound good on the I chord. Each of the various scale tones can resolve
>to the various elements of I chord:
>
>b9 resolves to 5
>#9 resolves to #7
>b5 resolves to 1 or 9 (although it is "square" resolve on the 1 of the 1
>chord. much better to land on a "pretty" note like the ninth)
>#5 resolves to 3 or 9